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  #11  
Old 6th June 2009, 04:59 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Vincent Just a variation on Dave's point really but in addition to Autochrome, let's assume that digi had been the first process invented so what we got was how we saw which is colour. It wouldn't have taken long for the gurus to try a desaturation/grey scale - just to see how it looked and then they would have sought try and print it. Just as they are trying to now and investing a lot of resources in terms of inks etc to get it right.

Had B&W ever been just the poor man's colour then it would truly have disappeard without trace a good many years ago. Instead of which there's a whole company risen from the ashes called Ilfordphoto who are surviving on the basis of being the first and last in trad B&W.

Mike
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  #12  
Old 6th June 2009, 05:01 PM
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When I was shooting black and white and colour side by side (many moons ago) I carried two cameras and never thought for a minute to compare one process with the other to see which was better. I simply operated on a there's a colour shot, or there's a mono shot, basis. Now I only shoot mono as I find it a more creative medium to work with and I still don't consider it to be superior or inferior to colour - it is after all just another creative process to use.

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  #13  
Old 6th June 2009, 05:55 PM
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I think Autochrome was always a bit too expensive for typical amateurs of the day and as a reversal process, making prints was not practical as it was essentially a medium intended for projection. Early colour was also very slow and grainy.

But what would have happened if quality colour had been invented soon after b&w and the costs reduced to a similar level is a very interesting question. I think we might be seeing the answer in the digital photography world where b&w is quite rare.

There are financial penalties on digital b&w printing as the usual colour printer ink-sets seem to do very poorly with b&w printing, requiring a separate printer, or at least a change to specialized ink-sets (with the accompanying flushing of expensive inks from feed lines and printer heads) to do b&w effectively. No doubt this will change over time - perhaps it already has as I'm not at all up to date on digital printing - but I can't see it as being a major consideration for printer manufacturers when developing new models.
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  #14  
Old 9th June 2009, 11:42 PM
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I have really never found colour print very satisfying and much prefer to see a print in B&W but having said that I have many Kodachrome transparencies which always look stunning when projected. I have occasionally been tempted to have slides made into prints which were fine but always seemed second best to the projected image
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  #15  
Old 28th June 2009, 11:37 AM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincent View Post
There are after all few if any examples of B&W paintings in the art world.

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Paintings in B&W are thin on the ground but notables such as Picasso (Guernica) did some in their impressionist phase

Martin
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  #16  
Old 28th June 2009, 12:17 PM
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Sandeha Lynch Sandeha Lynch is offline
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True, and Martin's mention of Guernica is a good example of why monochrome painting should never have been ignored.

However, long before anyone ever thought of putting oil paints into tubes (another of those darn progressive ideas of the 19th century) and before any coloured paints became cheap enough for the hoi polloi, drawing was painting's equal, whether in pencil, chalk, or line and wash. I imagine it found favour with the likes of Rembrandt since a drawing could quickly be converted into an edition of prints.

Go back to the fresco and many church panels were painted in monochrome ... a few examples here
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  #17  
Old 28th June 2009, 02:51 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandeha Lynch View Post
SNIP

Go back to the fresco and many church panels were painted in monochrome ... a few examples here
And on occasion coloured years later.
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  #18  
Old 28th June 2009, 11:08 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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The wife and I go around to a number of local amateur painting exhibitions. There are a number of thriving art groups in S Northants and E Warwickshire who have excellent artists. I always find myself drawn to pen and ink drawings and the artistic equivalent of Van Dyke/sepia brown.

We have a black and white painting of what appears to be a Canadian wintry scene. I think it is an oil painting but I don't know. All I do know is that we wandered around a number of artists' stalls in Crete and this one which was a scene alien to Crete and the sole B&W painting stood out like a beacon.

It must have been about 35 degrees C and less like a B&W winter scene you could not have imagined!

PS Had the chance to see "Good Night and Good Luck" again on DVD. Low key but powerful drama documentary and the B&W photography is superb. I remember the scenes because the B&W stays with me. I can't say that about colour films even when the story has been memorable.

Mike
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  #19  
Old 29th June 2009, 12:11 AM
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Type "John Virtue" into google. He does fantastic very big monochrome paintings. Recently saw a large one (a view of London St Paul's) at the Melbourne Art Fair. Very effective (sadly for me, also very expensive!).
Basically, monochrome looks great. I (and many people) find it intriguing, mysterious, surreal or just plain beautiful to look at. And I can make B&W images easily in my home darkroom. If you don't like digital, taking colour and converting to B&W is not really a good option. So, a pure B&W film workflow is necessary for me (and a lot of fun!)
Ian
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  #20  
Old 29th June 2009, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Vincent I'd make reference to Hollywood's choice in the 1950s and early 1960s as to which it chose. In areas where the story and characters were key B&W was the choice e.g. High Noon where technicolour was possible but would have been a distraction. "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" was another example. This time 10 years later when the cost of colour v B&W was unlikely to have been a consideration
A more modern example (modern being relative!). The Elephant Man 1980, shot in black and white. Colour would have distracted from the story.


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