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Old 14th November 2020, 11:15 PM
MichaelJ MichaelJ is offline
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Default Fibre-based paper... what do I need to know?

Good evening!

I've been starting to make prints in my bathroom since June (and negs in the kitchen since about March. I've learned A LOT- I just went back and made contact proof sheets from the first half-dozen films I processed myself and no wonder I struggled to get pleasing prints from them!

This morning's much-improved print from a sod of a neg attached below (as a lousy phone pic)...

All been on resin-coated paper so far, for obvious reasons of simplicity and not attempting to walk before mastering a crude crawl. Been thinking, though...

What do I do with fibre-based paper? Apart from the varied orthodoxy on drying the stuff, do I have to treat it any differently? Does it need/ prefer different chemistry?

Would like to get some to try. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Michael
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Old 14th November 2020, 11:34 PM
Adrian Adrian is offline
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Hi Michael

Fibre based paper:
It has a different speed to RC - I find MGFB classic is a bit faster than MGRC so start from scratch with test exposures etc.
Its expensive, so I usually work up a print on RC first. But then as I say start afresh with the FB exposure.
It may require a longer development time.
It definitely needs a longer fix time e.g. double that for RC.
It needs A LOT of washing. I use a washaid bath to reduce wash time but still needs a good 15 mins minimum.
Drying can be tricky. I use a drying screen. When dry press under some heavy books between mountboard for a few days.

I dont think the tonality is wildly better than RC but you can tone FB well and spotting is easier IMO and the prints are lovely things to handle.

Btw I like your picture of the horse.

Good luck,
Adrian
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Old 15th November 2020, 12:22 AM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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Fibre base paper is a lot more fragile and easily damaged when wet so extra care is needed during the processing.
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Old 15th November 2020, 09:33 AM
John King John King is online now
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Default Fibre/Resin

There used to be a world of difference between the two. Fibre always won out in a straight contest, but with the advent of the new Multigrade V Resin coated earlier this year the gap has narrowed to almost being the same. I don't think the fibre based paper has yet had an update.

It is both faster in exposure times and certainly the blacks have a lot more depth. the tones are much more evenly spaced as well.

Other benefits = cheaper and doesn't take as long to wash either. I don't think I will use fibre at all from now on.
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Old 15th November 2020, 09:34 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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FB paper is a lot mor fragile than RC, and is very easilyt damaged in the processing and even the drying, ut takes a lot more time to work witj=h and process, longer to develop, stop, and fix, Ilford suggest using film strength fixer and fix for exactly 1 minute, I use 2 bath fixing at 1/9 same strength as for RC, but 2 trays, fix in bath 1 for 1.1/2 minutes then second bath for 1 1/2 minutes, then the second bath at the next printing session becomes the first bath and mix fresh for the second, then you really need a hypo clearing bath, I use Kodak Hypo Clear, mix the packet of powder then dilute 1/4, rinse the print before clearing, fo 2 0r 3 minute's then clear for 4 or 5 minutes, wash for at least 1/2 hour, then hang up overnight to dry, then put prints face to face between 2 sheets of mounting board, with weight on top, I tend to use a few boxes of printing paper for 3 or 4 days until flat, then admire the prints, and if you are printing on MG5, wonder why you are using FB paper, because apart from the Feeling of the print in the hand, I can't tell the difference between FB and RC paper, I reserve my MG Classic or Art 300 for special prints, and for day to day printing I use MG5 or Kentmere VC Select,
Richard
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Old 15th November 2020, 09:38 AM
John King John King is online now
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Look at this link which shows how good Multigrde 5 is compared to MG4

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ad.php?t=13089
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Old 15th November 2020, 10:03 AM
Tony Marlow Tony Marlow is offline
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Quote:
I don't think the fibre based paper has yet had an update.


I thought Ilford MG Classic and the fibre Cooltone both fibre papers were updates of the MG IV? These were introduced not long ago, less than five years. With both fibre Classic and RC MG V delux has the paper base changed or just the emulsion?

Tony

Tony
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Old 15th November 2020, 10:24 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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The Classic is a new emulsion, much faster than MG4FB, but I must say I agree with John, I use very little FB these days, and when my Stock of Classic is gone I will have to think long and hard about gettin more, I very much like the new MG5, as good as FB, tones as well as FB, without all the hassle of FB paper, the but I still remember the pre Harman Kentmere, and the MG 5 is pretty much a clone of it, to the extent that the settings for my Analyser/pro are a match, I still have some old Kentmere and I print with it using the MG5 setting's, but whatever, it is a great paper and I can't see myself using much FB paper in the future
Richard
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Old 15th November 2020, 11:42 AM
John King John King is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Gould View Post
The Classic is a new emulsion, much faster than MG4FB, but I must say I agree with John, I use very little FB these days, and when my Stock of Classic is gone I will have to think long and hard about gettin more, I very much like the new MG5, as good as FB, tones as well as FB, without all the hassle of FB paper, the but I still remember the pre Harman Kentmere, and the MG 5 is pretty much a clone of it, to the extent that the settings for my Analyser/pro are a match, I still have some old Kentmere and I print with it using the MG5 setting's, but whatever, it is a great paper and I can't see myself using much FB paper in the future
Richard
Kentmere is a cooler tone paper than MG5. It is not a warm tone paper but if actually feels better when handling it too. MG5 for me is a winner. (Mind you I still have 3/4 of a box of 50 MG4RC 12x16)

I am going into my man cave tonight and will do another test using MG5 and MG Fibre, I had not thought of doing one before

Last edited by John King; 15th November 2020 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 15th November 2020, 12:52 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I agree that MG5 is a winner, but the emulsion on MG5 is pretty muchb the same as old Kentmere RC, I am talking about Kentmere fron the 90,s I had 2 boxes frozen, and looking at the settings from my analyser/pro for the MG5 I looked at the setttings for Old Kentmer, which I still had a note on, and the setting's were identical grade to grade, so I iun froze a box of the old Kentmere and made prints from firs MG5 then Old Kentmere of 2 negatives, one developed in DV10 and the other in Firstcall print developer, and I can't see any difference, maybe they tried to slightly improve it, but there are pretty much the same paper, which makes me believe that the new paper is a clone of the earlier, I have posted the 4 prints in albums, one on Kentmere the other on MG5, I am not saying thatr MG5 is not a vast improvement over MG4, but old Kentmere is the paper that matched FB and persuaded me to print mainly on RC, when the newer Harman kentmere came out I went back to FB, then tried other RC papers, but found FB better, and now MG5 has persuaded yet again to print mainly on MG5 again, heck it even tones exactly the same as old Kentmere,which was pretty much as well as FB paper in sepia, which is why I believe that there must be a lot of the old Kentmere in it, as far as the base goes, old Kentmere and MG5 is the same
Richard
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