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  #11  
Old 15th November 2020, 02:32 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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As said, RC and FB papers are two totally different products, but also very similar.

Other than the more careful processing, there is also a different feel to it in the hand. If you are looking at framing most work, I'm not sure there's much difference that can be seen between the two behind glass.

Also you can't get a matt surface in RC, as in FB papers, and this one of my favourite papers to work with. Yes, you can get the satin finish, which I also like, but they are quite different.

Why not take advantage of Ilford's 'free postage' offer, currently on, to buy a small pack of FB to try - maybe postcard size, to keep the cost down?

Let us all know if you buy any and how you get on with it.

Terry S
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  #12  
Old 15th November 2020, 10:05 PM
John King John King is offline
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I was unable to do the comparison with MG5 with MG Fibre but because I mistakenly thought I had some MG Fibre left, but I haven't. So I still did the test comparing MG5 and Kentmere Fineprint fibre and my conclusions are MG5 is faster than the Kentmere by about 10% and Kentmere Fineprint fibre itself was faster than MG Fibre in any case. If anything, I would say the MG5 is just a touch harder that the Fineprint.

There is not a lot to choose between them, but overall MG5 wins out for me simply because of the extended washing and drying times needed with fibre based.

The actual colour of the image is about the same as well, I would have to check in good daylight to see any difference. (if there is any, that is).

These were scanned on an Epson V500 set for colour to judge if there was any tonal difference. Absolutely no variations were carried out using Photoshop.

One thing I did find that was completely unexpected, was to do with the double filtration values suggested by Ilford that is supposed to keep the exposure times the same right through the filtration range from Gd '0' to Gd '4' they does not seem to work too well with MG5. I tried using the colour head LPL as the filtration source but only the single filter seemed to work satisfactorily. You may have to use their MG Filters to get it to work. I just don't know. But there again, that is another point entirely.
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Last edited by John King; 15th November 2020 at 10:17 PM.
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  #13  
Old 15th November 2020, 10:21 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Marlow View Post

I thought Ilford MG Classic and the fibre Cooltone both fibre papers were updates of the MG IV? These were introduced not long ago, less than five years. With both fibre Classic and RC MG V delux has the paper base changed or just the emulsion?

Tony

Tony
Sorry, I stand corrected.
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  #14  
Old 15th November 2020, 10:55 PM
MichaelJ MichaelJ is offline
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Thank you all for information, advice and encouragement!
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  #15  
Old 16th November 2020, 01:58 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
The actual colour of the image is about the same as well, I would have to check in good daylight to see any difference. (if there is any, that is).
Well, I have just looked at the prints in daylight and if colour/tone differences were tangible objects, I doubt if you could get a cigarette paper between MG5 and Kentmere Fineprint.

I wonder if Ilford, AKA Harman Technologies, has used some of the Kentmere knowhow in the development and manufacture of MG5. The speeds and tones of the paper and the final image quality are so very similar.
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  #16  
Old 16th November 2020, 03:54 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I have been saying for a while, there is a lot of Kentmere in MG5, shame that Harman never made the Fine print, the warm tone was FB paper of choice for years, better than the Ilford WT paper, lovely surface, Kentmere had a unique range of paper's, very sadly long gone,
Richard
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  #17  
Old 16th November 2020, 04:56 PM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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I can't tell the difference online so could it be that MG5 is just re-badged Kentmere?
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  #18  
Old 16th November 2020, 05:35 PM
Tony Marlow Tony Marlow is offline
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I suspect that MG5 is not a rebadged Kentmere going on what Ilford said on one of their factory tours. They said that they could not manufacture Kentmere Paper using their formula as some of the chemicals used were banned in the EU. We do know that some of the older papers from various manufactures were abandoned for this reason. Whether you believe Ilfords statement is for you to decide but does it really matter if we have a paper which we are very happy with?
Tony
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  #19  
Old 16th November 2020, 05:38 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyNL View Post
I can't tell the difference online so could it be that MG5 is just re-badged Kentmere?
I believe that MG5 is old ,pre harman, kentmere re born, I have tested it several times, the settings on my analyser/pro is the same as the ones I used to use for Kentmere, I had some old Kentmere frozen, I printed he same negative onto to MG5 and Kentmere, can't tell the difference, the two prints are identical, and I have printed Kentmere using the MG5 settings, and MG5 using the Kentmere settings, prints are identical, it can't be, surely, a coincidence, I think it was the Kentmere Art papers tghat could not be remade, Kentmere themselves had been forced to drop them, butwere looking at ways to bring them back with new chemicals, but before they could complete the reserch Harman bought them out, the main problem was that Cadimium was a big part of the art range, but Harman have done a good job of replacing then with Art 300, as they promised,
Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; 16th November 2020 at 05:59 PM.
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  #20  
Old 16th November 2020, 06:25 PM
John King John King is offline
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Originally Posted by Tony Marlow View Post
I suspect that MG5 is not a rebadged Kentmere going on what Ilford said on one of their factory tours. They said that they could not manufacture Kentmere Paper using their formula as some of the chemicals used were banned in the EU. We do know that some of the older papers from various manufactures were abandoned for this reason. Whether you believe Ilfords statement is for you to decide but does it really matter if we have a paper which we are very happy with?
Tony
I also understand that when Ilford were in the process of absorbing Kentmere into their empire, they were aghast at some of the practises used by Kentmere were using at their factory were at the time described as almost being from the 19th C! Having seen the Kentmere factory when it was in production, compared to Ilford it is tiny. How they managed to produce materials of the quality they did simply amazes me.

It is possible once having acquired the rights to use the name they looked at such things as Fineprint paper, saw what they used and if it was a 'banned' substance, looked around and found a substitute which was currently OK to use.

I think it also significant that Kentmere RC paper seems to have remained unchanged, but before the takeover the price was significantly cheaper than Ilford MG4 Then it crept up in price so that it wasn't far short of the Ilford product. I wonder if the price disparity between the new Ilford MG5 and Kentmere products remain the same, or will it increase?

Also there are some dealers who are selling a film branded as Ilford Pan 100 and 200. I wonder if these are Kentmere under a different banner?

Last edited by John King; 16th November 2020 at 06:32 PM.
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