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  #11  
Old Yesterday, 02:00 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
I mix my own concentrates and put them in two small 250ml bottles, and then dilute and mix as required. It's cheaper, is just, if not more versatile and is really easy to do.

I know a lot of people aren't into mixing their own, but trust me, it's very simple to do.

Terry S
I agree with yo Terry, but it is very hard to get the raw chemicals over here, used to be no problem and used to mix my own from raw chemicals, but restrictions are now very hard, and I would have to jump threw so many hoops now it is better to get the prepared chemicals, that way I don't have to prove every time what I want the chemicals for
Richard
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  #12  
Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Mike, you make up the 1 litre amount and pour the whole of the litre into the tray every time or else you are defeating the object...
Richard
An interesting point Richard, but the opposite to what you say, is how some developers e.g. D76 / ID11 are used as STOCK. Here, only a small amount is poured out to be used each time and then it's returned to the stock again, but with a 10% increase for the next film. I'm surprised that it too doesn't exhaust the stock solution, as this toner seems to?

Terry S
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  #13  
Old Yesterday, 03:08 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I know, I use 1d11 stock, but with the toner once it exhausts it's gone,and pouring it bac into the rest of the stock will only dilute the mixed stock, believe me, I've done it, I tried using just a small amount to tone just a few prints, first print toned perfectly, second print fine, third print took over twice as long and couldn't get the vibrancy, last print I tried sat in the toner for 20 minutes, and it looked the same bleached print as when I started, no re development,poured it back into the liter bottle next time I used the liter it took a long time to tone each print, and very quickly died, when I use the full loiter each time I get 3 or 4 sessions over a month or more, before it loses it's potency, It's not like ID11, it doesn't recharge itself, saying that I prfer to use different makes of toner to Fotospeed, such as Foma and Tetenal, Tetenal no longer make a the odourless toner, only the sulphide and I'm not allowed to stink the house out, and Fomatoner I can't find now in the UK,only one I can find is Fotospeed, so it's that or nothing. as regards I guess that id11/d76 is competely different formula, just like some developers are one shot, some you can develop 2 or 3 films per shot by increasing, Remember Adox's aph o9 the original pre war rodinal, mixing at 1/40 you could get 3 films one after the other by increasing the develop time for each film, yet modern rodinal in whatever is strictly one shot
Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; Yesterday at 03:12 PM.
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  #14  
Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Richard, so even if toning small prints say 5x7 or 6x4 which might not require anything like 1L in the trays designed for such small sizes you still use the whole 1L

What this means, I think, is that for toning small prints there is no point in using small trays since while I have never used trays, I imagine that 5x7 trays would not hold 1L or if they do then 1L means that the liquid is so close to the rim that agitation is likely to result in spillage

If I have understood your method correctly then it is unlike, for instance, Microphen where you place the used developer back into the 1L bottle and re-use.

I had thought that pouring out small quantities, say 30ml of say ordinary MG print developer into small trays for say one or two prints meant that it could be mixed back into the main container and then used again. However maybe not and the correct method with print developer is the same, namely if you decant some fresh MG developer into a small tray but only do a couple of prints then that might be usable again the next day but needs to be placed into a separate container and not mixed with the totally fresh developer from which it was taken?

Thanks

Mike
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  #15  
Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Yes Mike use full amount, but if you are toning small prints then mix up 500ml, won't last as long, but you should still get 2 or 3 sessions out of it, but due to the nature of toner no point in pouring small amounts back in a bottle of stock, if you are only going to tone 3 or 4 6x12 prints then 250ml should tone that amount, but don't try and save the mixed toner, not worth the effort,better to mix fresh every time, my prints are all made on 9 1/2x12, so my dishes easily hold 1 litre in fact I always mix 1 litre o9f developer,stop and fixer as I find it easier that way, Print developer is the same, in fact I always use fresh for every session, but again, with standard MG type developer like one shot film developers, do not pour it back into a stock bottle, it is not ID11, more like one shot film developer, for small or large amounts better in trays to use once then discard, If you only do a couple of prints, and plan to use it again in the next day or 2 then by all means store it, but in a small bottle on it's own, it should keep for a day or so, again, depends on the paper, with RC paper the chemicals last longer, you can put more sheets though it than you can with FB, at least I find it does, although I can't back it up with figer's but that has always been my belief
Richard
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  #16  
Old Yesterday, 07:16 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Right based on your experience Richard then it certainly looks as if it is a case of make up the 1L and use all of it at each toning and then pour it all back into the 1L for the next session. This way you can get presumably get what Fotospeed says you can out of the 1L although I imagine that unlike the bleach the toner does have a limited shelf life even it is not used so that an eye on dates and time intervals needs to be kept

In terms of economy it would seem that you are best making the stock solution immediately before you tone and ideally you have already earmarked enough prints to make it worthwhile

Using a kit for Sepia on a whim of wanting to do only the very occasional couple of prints might be quite expensive

It presumably gets expensive as well if you decide that some prints require a different "brownness" While you can increase the brownness with more additive there is no going back so you need to do the prints in increasing brownness order and once you have done what you need but the toner is still good for another session that's fine as long as future prints need that last level of brownness

The more I think about it the more complicated this sepia toning becomes

Mike
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  #17  
Old Today, 08:49 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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H Mike,
the toner solution, stored properly, keeps for a very long time, I have kept toner solution for 6 months, I just pour it out, then test the bleach, then toner on a scrap print, we all get them, and I keep a few for testing, if all is working then I go ahead and tone my prints, but thio toner keeps very well indeed in solution, certainly better than developer, both print and film, I just go on using it until it is exhausted, as far as colour goes, I mix to warm sepia, which I prefer to anything, the only variable is how deep I want the tone to be, and that is done with the bleach,the more you bleach the print the deeper the tone. my mix is for i litre of toner at 1 in 9 with 80 ml of the controll, gives me sepia
Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; Today at 08:54 AM.
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  #18  
Old Today, 11:03 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Gould View Post
my mix is for i litre of toner at 1 in 9 with 80 ml of the control, gives me sepia
Richard
Thanks. Just so I am clear that's 80ml of toner plus 720ml of water. So in effect that 800ml rather than 1Litre in total and this makes warm sepia?

Mike
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  #19  
Old Today, 12:41 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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No I am talking about the additive, the caustic soda, mix your toner as normal, which is 100ml toner to 900 ml of water, then add 80mm of the additive, the part 3 , if mixing 500 ml then 50ml of toner to 450 of water then the part 3, which for 500 would be 40 of the part 3, it is the amount of part 3 which gives you the colour you want,
Richard
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  #20  
Old Today, 04:55 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Richard.

Mike
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