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  #1  
Old 26th May 2011, 10:50 AM
DaveP DaveP is offline
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Default Portable MF camera conundrum, help me out!

Thought I might throw this open to the floor. I'm on the lookout for a more portable and handholdable alternative to my Mamiya 645 setup for handheld travel/family/outdoor photography My 4x5 has replaced my M645 for anything tripod based, what with spending most of my spare time chasing a toddler around over the last year or so I've found my Mamiya getting next to no use, as even with no grip and the smallest lens its still a fair size and a bulky package. So I've been chewing over the alternatives for something a bit handier that could still bring home the results, easilys pops nto a rucksack, and of course, not cost the earth.

Recntly I was sure I'd found the perfect camera in a Fuji GS645 (the folding 75mm lens one) from a dealer. Its very small, good modern glass, coupled rangefinder, good meter, nice vertical viewfinder (I ike vertical shots), feels good in the hand and folds nto a nice self-protecting package that takes little more room than a modern digital compact. But alas this turned sour last week after only 2 rolls the rangefinder was sticking, the bellows (despite being replaced and very sturdy looking) leaked, the meter packed in and the front lens standard was out of alignment so anything less than f16 gave soft shots. Understandably this has kinda shattered my confidence in this model of camera and to an extent in folders generally.

So I'm now on the lookout for alternatives. The obvious (inevitable?) choice would be the GS645S(with the 60mm lens) although its a lot less compact because of the fixed lens and bullbars and possibly a little less robust when packed. I feel the compactness of the folder will be hard to match, I was slightly spoilt by portability for the short time I had it and maybe its just unrealistic to try and find something similar. I think I will need“modern” style operation - proper film winding/ shutter cocking, good meter (I shoot slide film) and a coupled rangefinder - are there any "vintage" folders that fit this bill?

And before anyone points out the new Fuji 6x7 folder, yes this does look close to perfect but I don't have a spare 1500 quid...

So if anyone can chip in with anything I might not have thought of, or other ideas, or generally would like to spend my money for me, I'm all ears.

Thanks
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Old 26th May 2011, 10:59 AM
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RH Designs RH Designs is offline
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New Mamiya 6. Superb interchangeable lenses, very compact with the lens retracted. Square format so you don't need to worry about which way to hold it. The only problem will be finding one ...

I'm not well versed with folders but I'm sure someone will chime in with a few suggestions.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:20 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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if you don't mind 6x6 then perhaps a rollei, either a flex or a cord, would suit, easy to carry around, uncomplicated and great results,
as for folders, you should not be having any problems with the fuji, thyey are very well made cameras, the only weakness is the belows which is made of a plastic, which does wear, I should either take it back to where the bellows were fitted or where you got it, I have a camera from 1938 with original (leather) bellows that works perfectly, so don't be to quick to give up on folders, I have, at present count, around 7 or 8 MF folders, all are light tight and they all work perfectly, and are from 1938 to 1954,
Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; 26th May 2011 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:43 AM
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Paul Mitchell Paul Mitchell is offline
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I bought my Agfa Super Isolette a couple of years ago after finding that my Fuji GW670III was too big to just pop in my small Billingham Hadley. Since then it pretty much travels everywhere with me and I can fit my Zero 2000, light meter and a few rolls of film too!

For some reason the prices have risen recently, in fact I saw one on Sunday at Photographica selling for £380.00! (I bought mine for £200.00) with an Isolette III going for £199.00! I'm sure if you search around you could pick one up cheaper.

There's also the cheaper Russian 'Iskra' copy which have heard good reports about. If you do want something a little more modern what about the Bronica RF645?



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Old 26th May 2011, 11:51 AM
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Yes, I've been giving a lot of thought to the same sort of thing recently. So you find the Mamiya bulky? Yet it looks quite small for what it is.
The later Fuji 645's get great reviews, and your early one with bellows gets thumbs down for exactly the things you said went wrong.
A Rolleiflex as Richard suggested, though bulky-ish, is a great travel companion. If you went for the T model, you could get the 16-on kit and have 'nearly' 6x4.5. The lens is fantastic, and especially so at f8 and 11, but it is a tad bulkier.
Have you thought about the Bronica RF 645? That, though still pricey, got excellent reviews, and it is quite small.
If you can afford it there's always the Mamiya 7, or maybe one of the old Zeiss Ikon folders would foot the bill?
Good luck - it's fun looking!
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Old 26th May 2011, 03:34 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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What about an English camera?, you can get an ensign selfix 16/20, which gives you 645 negatives, and folds up small enough to fit in your pocket, and if you get one with the Ross xpress lens then you have a great camera, you need a Exposure meter, and it is a guesstimate focus, but with the depth of field indicator it is easy to get sharp negatives, or if you want a bigger negative there is the 12/20, or even bigger the 820, which gives you 6x9 or 6x6,they are all great cameras, I have them all and use them all the time,
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Old 26th May 2011, 03:47 PM
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The Bronica RF 645 - super 'handholdability', interchangeable lenses which are pin sharp and relatively compact, 58mm filters. The 45mm wide angle lens has a separate bright-line viewfinder. The light meter is very accurate over a variety and challenging lighting conditions. Has aperture priority and program exposure modes as well as manual settings. The viewfinder is clear, bright and uncluttered, however I do find the area for focusing a wee bit on the small size for my taste but again it is positive.

Although I mainly bought the camera for a particular project I've found it quite versatile so I can see me using it 'further afield'.
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Old 26th May 2011, 04:13 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Crone View Post
The Bronica RF 645 - super 'handholdability', interchangeable lenses which are pin sharp and relatively compact, 58mm filters. The 45mm wide angle lens has a separate bright-line viewfinder. The light meter is very accurate over a variety and challenging lighting conditions. Has aperture priority and program exposure modes as well as manual settings. The viewfinder is clear, bright and uncluttered, however I do find the area for focusing a wee bit on the small size for my taste but again it is positive.

Although I mainly bought the camera for a particular project I've found it quite versatile so I can see me using it 'further afield'.
I agree with Trevor’s appraisal, I recently brought an RF645 as a “walking out camera” and whilst it isn’t what I call pocketable, it does fit into a small bag with room for filters and film.
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Old 26th May 2011, 08:48 PM
DaveP DaveP is offline
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Well as they say my cup well and truly runneth over with suggestions - thanks all. I'll try and run down a few thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
New Mamiya 6. Superb interchangeable lenses, very compact with the lens retracted. Square format so you don't need to worry about which way to hold it. The only problem will be finding one ...
…and affording one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Gould View Post
if you don't mind 6x6 then perhaps a rollei, either a flex or a cord, would suit, easy to carry around, uncomplicated and great results
Interesting suggestion this one. I have used a yashica mat recently but sold it partly because the shutter release broke, but also because I never really gelled with it for handholding/walkaround use, and for tripod use I've got the 4x5. I seem to remember when packing it for a scrambling weekend in snowdonia I found once I'd packed my spotmeter with the TLR it was scarcely a more compact than the Mamiya 645, although granted it was lighter. For non-mountain use, I found the slight added weight of the Mamiya was more than compensated for by the added ease of use. My gut feeling is a TLR won't be compact enough for me now, but the issue of not relying on bellows and rangefinder calibration is a selling point.

Vintage folders: A few years ago I did have a Bessa 6x9 folder for a while. I found the viewfinder pitifully small, the lens had colour fringing issues around the edge of frame even at f/22, and the front cell focussing wasn't great. I would maybe look at a folder again if any of them are lens-unit focussing type (I think the super isolette might be like this?) and have a viewfinder that is decent. I seem to remember looking at them again a few years back and concluding the really good ones in decent nick were quite expensive by virtue of being collectable. The issue of metering is a concern too - how many of these 50-year old cameras have a meter on-the-ball enough for slide film? I have handheld meters but would prefer not to have to cart them around with a handheld camera.

Bronica RF645 - this is something I should probably look seriously at. I think I sometimes dimiss Bronica as I once handled a ETRs and it seemed clunky and a bit backwards compared to the Mamiya. The rangefinder model however does look pretty good, probably worth serious deliberation. Price might be an issue, looks like a basic body+65mm clocks in at about 550 quid at dealers, about the same as my entire Mamiya 3-lens kit. Is cheap compared to a mamiya 6/7 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Yes, I've been giving a lot of thought to the same sort of thing recently. So you find the Mamiya bulky? Yet it looks quite small for what it is.
Phil to be honest the mamiya 645 aint actually all that bad for a medium format setup, especially given the relatively fast glass available. I carry (or rather carried) mine with the metering prism and 80mm 2.8 in the same size of Lowepro zoom bag as you'd carry a large 35mm SLR with a zoom. Its not all that bad in itself, but it does tend to make its weight felt after a day round the neck, and if you chuck the bag into a rucksack it seems to swallow space up. In contrast, this fuji folder was like a breath of fresh air - I could shoehorn it into the top of my climbing bag in about the space of a guidebook or a maltloaf.
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Old 26th May 2011, 09:56 PM
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The issue of metering is a concern too - how many of these 50-year old cameras have a meter on-the-ball enough for slide film? I have handheld meters but would prefer not to have to cart them around with a handheld camera.

Personally, I have never found in-camera metering much good. A simple hand-held meter with a bit of thought always wins out.

I love my Mamiya 7 but the meter (being very centre-biased) . . . well it always shows more than two stops different from what I decide with my Weston III - and I find that my exposures are always spot-on unless I myself made a stupid mistake.

I think you should concentrate on the glass and your personal requirement regarding size/pocket-ability/price etc.

Best of luck finding what suits.
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