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  #1  
Old 1st November 2021, 03:34 PM
egrabczewski egrabczewski is offline
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Default Camera lenses in enlargers

I've been informed by the The Intrepid Camera that regular camera lenses can be used in enlargers.
If that's true then why do we buy special lenses for enlargers?
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Old 1st November 2021, 03:43 PM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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The optical requirements for an enlarging lens are different to those for a camera lens.

An example of this is the operating distance the lenses are designed to operate at - most camera lenses are optimised for infinity but enlarging lenses are designed to operate at 2~10 times enlargement.

There is no reason why you cannot use your camera and taking lens as an enlarger - it's just the image quality will just not be optimised.

Martin
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Old 1st November 2021, 03:48 PM
snusmumriken snusmumriken is offline
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I've always understood that it is because the design constraints for enlarger lenses require both image plane and object plane to be very flat. For a camera lens, other considerations like maximum aperture may be more important than a flat object plane.

The famous Soviet Zenit suitcase enlarger did indeed function with their Industar or Helios camera lenses. I never had one of those enlargers, but I wasn't very impressed with the Industar lens even on the camera.
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Old 1st November 2021, 03:53 PM
MikeHeller MikeHeller is offline
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I used to use a wartime Elmar 5cm lens in a Leitz enlarger in the 60's and managed to make some 20×16" prints using it projected onto the floor. I still have at least one of them and they stand up well compared to a more recent 12×16" print done with a Nikon enlarging lens although it lacks the contrast of the latter.

Mike
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Old 1st November 2021, 04:22 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Reading this has made a question pop into my mind. My enlarger lenses are fixed in the sense that there is no focusing means in the lens, it is all done with the bellows

With a camera lens there is focusing so what's the correct drill when using one in an enlarger?. Do you use the focusing at all or simply set it at a fixed distance such as infinity and treat if the same way as a "fixed" enlarger lens with no focus?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 1st November 2021, 05:00 PM
egrabczewski egrabczewski is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snusmumriken View Post
The famous Soviet Zenit suitcase enlarger did indeed function with their Industar or Helios camera lenses. I never had one of those enlargers, but I wasn't very impressed with the Industar lens even on the camera.
As it happens I recently bought the Zenith UPA-5 enlarger with Industar 50-Y-1 lens and re-bought a Zorki 4K camera with Jupiter-8 lens. Time to experiment!

Last edited by egrabczewski; 1st November 2021 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 1st November 2021, 05:22 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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At one time camera lenses were used with enlargers, when the Rapid Rectilinear lens wasintroduced in 1866 by Dallmeyer slaes of Petzval lenses almost completly stopped except for some portrait lenses. Remaining stocks were sold as enlarger or projector lenses.

However they were quickly replaced by specific enlager lenses, often very similar designs to taking lenses but optimised for closer focus, the major change is often element spacing.

Some designs like Tessars do work well as taking and enlarging lenses, hence the typical use of the similar but not quite identical Elmar.

The simpler answer is for critical work and larger enlargements an enlarger lens will give much higher quality particularly at the edges and corners.

If you're only doing 10x8's off a 5x4 negative then you probably wouldnt see a difference using a 135 or150mm camera lens.

Ian
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Old 1st November 2021, 05:24 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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I can’t find anything written about this, Mike, although there are plenty of references to using the 5cm Elmar, and some other Leica lenses for enlarging. I am going to guess that the lens is set to infinity, and focus achieved with the mechanism built into the enlarger. This is generally a helical screw mount, rather than bellows on the Leitz enlargers. The Elmar lens has a device to lock it at the infinity setting, which would avoid accidental movement of its own focus.
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Old 1st November 2021, 06:15 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
I can’t find anything written about this, Mike, although there are plenty of references to using the 5cm Elmar, and some other Leica lenses for enlarging. I am going to guess that the lens is set to infinity, and focus achieved with the mechanism built into the enlarger. This is generally a helical screw mount, rather than bellows on the Leitz enlargers. The Elmar lens has a device to lock it at the infinity setting, which would avoid accidental movement of its own focus.
Alex


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When using an Elmar or Tessar to enlarge was common most photographers were making relatively small prints compared to today, and this was really a 1930's and post WWII thing. Until the early 1950's lenses and cameras, were in short supply due to verytough import restrictions imposed in 1945. So dual use of a taking lens made sense, Gnome & De Vere had been manufacturing for Goverment contracts during teh war and both switched to the professional market post WWII.

In Gnome's case to no success and they swiftly moved to the amateur market and used the M39 Leica thread so people could use their Elmar lenses. I have an early Gnome Universal 35mm enlarger introduced in 1947 (universalas can be used as a projector as well). I got it new in 1968, it had been hidden away for 20 years in a camera dept in radio and TV spares shop. It was free as long as I bought an enlarger lens off them

If you go to exhibitions of early Kertesz, Doisnea, etc, and see original contemporary prints the largest are smaller than 10x8. It's only in the 1960's photographers in Europe start to enlage more. I'd add this was Europe as a whole and the complete opposte of the US where there weren't shortages of equipment and materials after WWII. Add to that Europe had embraced smaller formats much earlier and to a far greater than America, particularly 35mmnand Rolleiflex/Rolleicord cameras.

Ian
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Old 1st November 2021, 07:13 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Alex That was what I had assumed, namely set to infinity and held there with a click stop

Mike
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