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  #21  
Old 20th December 2017, 06:28 PM
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maltklaus maltklaus is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
The real problem may be that many cannot have a darkroom. They just don't have facilities. I have a converted bedroom which is ideal but frankly the wife took a bit of persuading to lose a bedroom. Even if you have a room there is the issue of water etc
If you want it, there's a way. I have seen pictures of temporary horizontal darkroom setups above the space of a toilet. My own darkroom doesn't have running water, I have to go across the hall for that.
I don't think the space situation has changed much for people, there have always been people printing in small, confined spaces in small flats.
Maybe it's the time aspect of it? In the case of photography, you shoot your roll, drop it off to be developed and scanned and there are your files. Printing takes a LOT of time if you really want to get the hang of it. In our fast-paced world with a myriad of things to do and occupy oneself with, I can see this being an issue. For me it's the opposite - my darkroom days are to deliberately get away from the day-to-day buzz.
I'm not even a member of a camera club. I have no intention at all to talk about "gear" or head out in big groups of people on a day out shooting in a city. I have put my feelers out - there are camera clubs around, but so far I haven't found anyone else printing in the darkroom. As has been mentioned before, "fine art" printing, which is what I aspire to, has always been a very scarce hobby with most people wo did print only printing the odd "personal" picture or dabbling a bit in doing slightly advanced prints.

Anyway, I am as intrigued as most here as to how sales of paper are performing. It's always only about film. As much as I love seeing people shoot film, there's nothing like the joy of producing a darkroom print. It's certainly what lured me in 15 years ago and brought me back in early 2012 when I made the switch back for my personal work.

Is there a future? I believe so. Ilford certainly must do so and see the sales to support it, or they wouldn't have come out with two new FB papers two years ago and their Art 300 a few years before...
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Last edited by maltklaus; 20th December 2017 at 06:38 PM.
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  #22  
Old 20th December 2017, 08:02 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default My current plan

I intend keep taking photographs as I have done for so many years and print what I like and store the negatives in a cool dry environment. Those negatives I do not print will be turned into slides electronically and projected whenever I feel I need reminding what I have been up to in the past few weeks, months or even years. I would love to use E6 film but that is getting just to expensive now.

I have enough gear to keep me going for a good while and so long as there is a ready supply of film, paper, chemicals for both B&W and colour I cannot ask for more........
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  #23  
Old 20th December 2017, 10:49 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Default A vertical dish layout

A working colleague, Mr Diamond (I forget his first name) and I sketched out a darkroom bench that looked more like a shelf unit with a closed back. The year was 1970. It was to be made of 1/4" DARVIC rigid PVC using cabinetmaking techniques, fusion welded with a Leister or similar hot air gun.
It had two shelves for dishes, the top one for developer, of course, the one beneath for fix. We actually built a prototype chute to drop the paper from the top dish/shelf to the fix - and it worked!. There was to be a bucket of water on the floor.
My present darkroom has neither running water nor drain and the flexible garden bucket works just fine (with RC paper). I can produce a dozen 16x12" RC prints in a session. But I have to admit that it would be nice to have plumbing.
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  #24  
Old 21st December 2017, 08:51 AM
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RH Designs RH Designs is offline
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Originally Posted by John King View Post
Only to see them fade or degrade within months. Or spill a drink on one and it is dead. With RA4 prints a quick rinse and dry and it is as good as new.
Modern decent quality inkjet materials do not fade or degrade significantly. I have inkjet prints on the wall that haven't changed at all in several years. And just for fun I once ran a black and white inkjet print made on baryta paper under the tap for a few minutes. It dried slightly crinkly like a fibre-based darkroom print but the image was unchanged.
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  #25  
Old 22nd December 2017, 11:27 AM
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There seem to be more younger flm photographers, who are also interested in darkroom printing. Though they probably do not outnumber the old guard fading away. Nevertheless I firmly believe that film photography and darkroom printing will stay as the niche, which it is for quite a while now. As printing is the very natural form of processing a film negative, it needs some endorsement. Make sort of public darkrooms available or invite fellow film photographers to yours and show them the art.
I just started this year again after a pause of 25 years. I simply did not have any space to set up my equipment before I moved somewhere else. After my first printing session in my corner of the garage, I was very happily hanging up four prints of my favourite negatives. Next day my wife came around and asked what I did again. This could mean a lot of things , but she was referring to the prints, which she saw in the garage. She just found them wonderful and said that she had never seen beautiful images like these, though she knew the scanned versions. Just prints of HP5 negatives, developed in Rodinal (stand development). Then straight print developed in a Jobo drum. Simple, but so much better than anything else! This we have to explain and show. Frank
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  #26  
Old 22nd December 2017, 02:12 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Inkjet

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Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
Modern decent quality inkjet materials do not fade or degrade significantly. I have inkjet prints on the wall that haven't changed at all in several years. And just for fun I once ran a black and white inkjet print made on baryta paper under the tap for a few minutes. It dried slightly crinkly like a fibre-based darkroom print but the image was unchanged.
But where is the skill in pressing a few buttons? They even have apes that can do that for a reward.

I also tried wetting a scrap inkjet print with a deliberate coffee cup mark and the print did not like that at all. the colours blurred at the edges and the cup mark stayed put. More or less as I said.
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  #27  
Old 22nd December 2017, 02:47 PM
big paul big paul is offline
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I have as I have said before been dev and printing since 1970s ,and I still find it magical .I am not the greatest printer or photographer in the world but as long as I am happy with the print I will keep it ,its all done for my benefit ,but there is a price to pay ,all my relative who swear by digital all have at lest one or more of my prints hanging in there homes ,mostly people shots, and some country side shots and as I take my camera to every family do ,they always say can you make a print for me ,I don't mind doing it, it gives me an excuse to go in to my darkroom and I always stamp my name on the back..


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  #28  
Old 29th December 2017, 07:48 PM
RobertJMan RobertJMan is offline
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Default We can change the world...

Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I wholeheartedly agree about the continuation of darkroom printing but the lack of people engaged in the art will either continue at the present level or even decrease. (More likely).

'I want it and I want it now' mindset of many people. They have no interest in doing a bit of work to get what they want.

That is another point. Learning how to do it. I don't know about you but where did you learn...very soon went and joined a club where I was given help and sometimes demonstrations of how to go about making a print, or even developing a film properly to get the best out of it.

So, we who still use a darkroom are in a very small minority and I am sorry to say, it is my opinion will continue to decline because there is less people taking it up, there are now a tiny number who are there to teach people how to do it and not many people have to room in a house where they can set aside a room to make a darkroom - even a temporary one.

So there we have it folks. Not a pretty picture but being a realist have to accept that it would take a whole mindset of change to alter what is no entrenched in the way of doing things today
Hi John,

Realist can turn into defeatist, surely you don't want that?

This forum shows how many people will "craft" a "fine print" using all wet process and there are many, many young people yearning to "keep it real" and strive to support noble, "lost causes".

Proposal. Those who have personal dark rooms register with "localdarkroom.com" and offer support to a person not as privelidged as we.

Robert
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  #29  
Old 29th December 2017, 10:35 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default "localdarkroom.com"

Sorry but that is not going to happen with me.

Invite someone into your house to use your darkroom is simply asking for trouble. I would want to be present when it was being used. This can give rise to allegations of impropriety. Place two persons of whatever gender in a darkened room, who do not really know each other, if put together could quite simply give rise to allegations. No matter how spurious, can cause all sorts of knock on problems. My darkroom quite simply is not large enough to have 3 persons working together in comfort.

I addition, if that person, if left alone were also minded, may steal items from the room which is also where I keep my cameras and lenses. The only non family member that I would invite into the darkroom is someone I know and trust already.

Putting it bluntly I have a high level of scepticism where people are concerned.

Last edited by John King; 29th December 2017 at 10:42 PM.
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  #30  
Old 30th December 2017, 11:44 AM
RobertJMan RobertJMan is offline
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Hi John and all,

Of course not everyone can have an adequate space and not everyone who reached out for darkroom facilities would be "appropriate ".

But in the age of AirBNB where strangers from other countries share living space, sleep and eat in the same home, maybe some "trust establishing mechanism" could allay fears?

While a child I stayed with a family in Germany and my parents reciprocated. As you say, a different era but still this is common practice today, doubtless with some safeguarding procedures in place.

For what it is worth I will first go to the Aire Street Darkfoom in Leeds and / or The Darkroom in Sheffield to learn new skills and revive old memories. They won't know who the hell I am, nor me them (at first). Maybe there will be an establishment of "respectability" in some way, my place of work, job and home address would seem very reasonable.

Robert
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