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  #11  
Old 6th May 2017, 04:21 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I have never tried the under-expose/over develop routine for overcast days but have never knowingly taken pictures in such conditions anyway. However as Peterlg has said this is what the theory leads you to do to compensate for a small subject brightness range.

Others say that the above theory was more applicable when there was no MG paper and these days you can produce as good results with box speed and development times and correct for a small subject brightness range with a higher grade.

Is there an appreciable difference in the prints between these two methods? Has anyone got experience of trying both methods in similar or identically low SBR conditions? If so what were the results?

Thanks

Mike
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  #12  
Old 7th May 2017, 03:50 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Hi Mike,

You raise some good questions - try to adjust at the front end exposure and developing stage, or during printing? Re. the former, I intend to try some tests to see what effect this has, starting with using different films and developers, then working out best exposure and development times. But inevitably I will bump into the usual roadblock that all roll film users do - different SBRs on the same roll. Which means I will have to do what I can in the darkroom. But at least if I've got a suitable, versatile film in camera to start with it gets me part way there.

Just out of curiousity I will take out some different cameras at some point, which have a different "look" to the lenses (once I have settled on a good film and developer, that is). Lately I've been using my Mamiya C330 with PanF or FP4 done in Rodinal 1+50. This overall combo just isn't clicking with me yet....

As a general observation about the Mamiya's lenses, while I really like the tonality of these lenses, I'm finding they lack some of the snap and crispness that some of the German optics have in a few of my cameras. Softer contrast it seems...others on the web refer to this trait of the Mamiyas as being lower in micro-contrast, which the German lenses have apparently been designed to optimize. I'm not sure exactly what that all means technically, but I'm curious if the lens in say, a Rolleiflex, will get me closer to the look I'm after in flat light than a Sekor lens. Will be fun to try it and find out....

Actually, now that I think about it, some of my nicest shots in such flat light have been with a Rollei 35SE Sonnar lens shot on Tmax film developed in D76..... Hmmmm... Very interesting.... Might be onto something here :-)

Regards,
Svend

Last edited by Svend; 7th May 2017 at 04:02 AM.
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  #13  
Old 7th May 2017, 01:16 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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I just took a closer look at Ian's images (wonderful photos Ian! I wish we had ancient structures like that here in Canada). It occurred to me that the subtle warm tones really work well here. Just that one small step can transform something from dull grey to very pleasing indeed. Normally, for almost all my photos, I don't use warm tone paper or toning, and prefer neutral to cool tones. But for this kind of lighting I think I'm a convert. Very nice!

Ian, how did you achieve those tones? Warm tone paper and developer only?

Thanks,
Svend
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  #14  
Old 7th May 2017, 01:19 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
I just took a closer look at Ian's images (wonderful photos Ian! I wish we had ancient structures like that here in Canada). It occurred to me that the subtle warm tones really work well here. Just that one small step can transform something from dull grey to very pleasing indeed. Normally, for almost all my photos, I don't use warm tone paper or toning, and prefer neutral to cool tones. But for this kind of lighting I think I'm a convert. Very nice!

Ian, how did you achieve those tones? Warm tone paper and developer only?

Thanks,
Svend
Just Forte Polywarmtone paper and Ilford ID-78 developer, then Selenium toned. I make up the ID-78 from raw chemistry, it was once sold as a powder developer, the current Ilford Warmtone developer is essentially a liquid version of it.

I was lucky and bought quite a lot of Polywarmtone from the very last batch produced, I still have some left in larger sizes which I'll have to cut down. When it's finished the next projects will be on Ilford Warmtone FB.

Ian
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  #15  
Old 7th May 2017, 01:26 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Well ain't that just my luck? A paper I can't get anymore... Any recommendations for something similar?

The tones you've achieved really are very pleasant. Subtle and not overdone. I would not have guessed you'd selenium toned those.
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  #16  
Old 7th May 2017, 02:14 PM
peterlg peterlg is offline
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SvendN, maybe when you experiment you should reduce the number of variables, ie. chose one film and one developer and keep the rest constant. Both PanF and FP4 are excellent, PanF is a bit slow - I reserve that for days with a lot of light or alternatively when I have a tripod at hand. Rodinal, never used it, I have the impression it's slightly "rough" giving good contrast and a good deal of grain! Ilford make two general purpose, liquid developers, LC29 easy in use and economical, and DDX- fine grain and full iso speed. Select your combo and stick to it for a period, that may give you a more precise knowledge on what happens whith different exposures and developments.
Yes, roll film is not ideal for individual treatment. I only shoot 135 or 120 film and confess there is a lot of frames wasted on my films: when I've made the exposures I want I take the film roll out and process it. That could be three 6x6 frames! With 135 I take the film out, cut the strip with the exposed frames and put the rest of the film back in the camera.
Finally, Selenium does not really change the tone of the paper I use: Ilford's plain MG RC, it's done for archival purposes.
Peter
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  #17  
Old 7th May 2017, 02:55 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Well ain't that just my luck? A paper I can't get anymore... Any recommendations for something similar?

The tones you've achieved really are very pleasant. Subtle and not overdone. I would not have guessed you'd selenium toned those.
probably the nearest that you will get would be Fomatone classic paper,
Richard
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  #18  
Old 7th May 2017, 04:32 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Thanks Richard. Good tip. Foma is easy to come by here, and less expensive than others. I hear it's good stuff, although I've not yet used it. Time to try it...

Peter, yes, you are right in that I will change only one variable at a time. The combo of FP4 in Rodinal isn't working for me for the landscape and nature subjects I've been shooting lately, so I think I'll keep it on deck for some of the gritty urban and industrial stuff I do. I'm keen to try replenished Microphen, which is said to be very similar to DDX image-wise. And I always have Perceptol on hand, which I've used a lot and like very much.

This situation reminds me of how much I sometimes miss having a system camera with swappable backs. I am sorely tempted at times to pick up a cheap RB67. But then I have so many cameras already.... Sigh...

Best,
Svend
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  #19  
Old 7th May 2017, 07:38 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Well ain't that just my luck? A paper I can't get anymore... Any recommendations for something similar?

The tones you've achieved really are very pleasant. Subtle and not overdone. I would not have guessed you'd selenium toned those.
I've found the best replacement for Polywarmtone is Ilford Warmtone. When it first came out I didn't like the very off white base but now the base is similar to Polywarmtone.

Fomatone MG Classic is a paper I tried but again I'm not keen on it's base clour. I find the Ilford Warmtone to match the Polywarmtone prints whereas the Foma look quite different. this is important in my exhibition sets.

Ian
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  #20  
Old 7th May 2017, 08:35 PM
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cliveh cliveh is offline
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Use a larger aperture.
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