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  #1  
Old 30th August 2016, 03:50 PM
Chrisvclick Chrisvclick is offline
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Default Water or oil marks on negatives ?

Have been processing film both colour and black and white film for a while now and have come upon a problem..
This seems to be when i process this cheapie agfa c41 film, I get lots of contaminate left on the film. Doesn't seem to happen with other manufacturers or black and white. (well so far anyway)

Picture at link below, strip of negatives are in a scanner frame to hold em flat..


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByC...ew?usp=sharing


After getting my second of these faults, I decided there was a problem and used one of the films to test ways to get rid of the traces. A gentle water wash did nothing, wet tissue removed some but it took alchohol on a tissue to remove the marks totally. Was a bit of pressure involved too !. Obviously not recomended !. Fault leaves white blobs on the print.. I first thought the stab had got polluted but other films are fine.

Any ideas ?
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Old 30th August 2016, 04:43 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I have no answer, Chris but I don't use the cheap Agfa C41 film which as I understand it is Fuji 200 film anyway. I visit APUG quite often and have never seen this complaint but for all I know the cheap Agfa may not be sold in N Amerca where most of the forum users live.

It might be worth using a mini-lab locally or one of the one mentioned in the past here such as Matt's at AgPhotographic to see if the problem is still there.

If I had to hazard a guess and in spite of no issue with other C41 films I'd say it has to be something to do with your processing but that's no more than a guess on my part.

Could anything else have occurred with the Agfa film that was peculiar to the processing of that film and that one alone?

Mike
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Old 31st August 2016, 02:21 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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From its appearance, I would guess that this is related to wetting agent streaking or precipitation.
In all my years of running processing laboratories (before the days of E-6) I never came across film coating problems, so whether the film was cheap or expensive is unlikely to be relevant.
Some questions:
- was the final bath prepared from a powder or a liquid concentrate?
- was it mixed in ordinary tapwater? The water round your way is pretty soft, as I recollect.
- what was the final bath bottle previously used for?
- did you check the concentration specified in the instructions??
- which brand of chemistry was used?
- was anything added to the stock brew, even unintentionally?
- which side were the marks removed from: the shiny back or the matte, soft emulsion side?
- if alcohol-soaked tissue removed the marks, it was probably anionic surfactant, but water would also remove this.
- the marks look as though the film was hung vertically for drying
- how was the film dried: in still air at room temerature or with a warm air source such as a hair dryer?
- if a hair dryer, for how long did you allow the film to drip before applying heat?
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Old 31st August 2016, 02:46 PM
Chrisvclick Chrisvclick is offline
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The chemistry is the rollei kit and i suspected the stab or final bath too. Was mixed with normal tap water, new virgin plastic bottle, nothing added to it but has had bout 10 films through it !.
The marks are on the shiny non emulsion side, Still Air dried,
The alchohol used, was Isopropanol. Didnt really worry bout how pure it was, just would it bring the marks off...
If you catch them damp, they shows up as droplets that can be "wiped" off with a gentle stroke of a dry tissue
I have had problems with the black and white previously, used a water filter and fixed that with no return..
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Old 31st August 2016, 04:53 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisvclick View Post
The chemistry is the rollei kit and i suspected the stab or final bath too. Was mixed with normal tap water, new virgin plastic bottle, nothing added to it but has had bout 10 films through it !.
The marks are on the shiny non emulsion side, Still Air dried,
The alchohol used, was Isopropanol. Didnt really worry bout how pure it was, just would it bring the marks off...
If you catch them damp, they shows up as droplets that can be "wiped" off with a gentle stroke of a dry tissue
I have had problems with the black and white previously, used a water filter and fixed that with no return.
Thanks for the info.
Try sending a sample to Firstcall, the importers.
Many FADU contributors have used the Rollei Digibase C-41 kit without problems but using it ten times may be stretching things a bit. Precipitation of insoluble sulphur from exhausted fix is another possibility. How did you cure the drying problem with B&W? Just the water filter? Was the same water filter also used for the C-41?
Try extending the last wash to ten minutes (in filtered water) and, as an experiment, use a standard B&W wetting agent (or 10 drops of dishwasher rinse aid per litre) instead of your much-used stab/final bath. Alternatively, you could pass the Rollei fix and then stab/final bath through your water filter.
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Old 31st August 2016, 08:29 PM
Chrisvclick Chrisvclick is offline
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Sounds a good idea, will presume the stab has expired first and then get in touch if no joy..
The black and white film problem was a temporary thing, didnt know they were disturbing the water supply to my home at the time. a locally bought filter sorted it and have carried on using it since...
Thanks kindly for the help...
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Old 31st August 2016, 09:16 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I may be wrong here but as I understand it the stab for C41 is essential for the longevity of the film in that it stops "bugs" from feeding on the dyes.

From what I have read the stab should be the last liquid into which the film is immersed.

Mike
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Old 1st September 2016, 05:50 AM
Chrisvclick Chrisvclick is offline
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The stab or stabiliser is the last fluid the film goes in, thats why it would be suspect if particles are left on the film.
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Old 1st September 2016, 11:47 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Film Marks

Can you tell us what the water is like where you live? Hard water is a cast iron certainty to get marks similar to yours, irrespective of what the last bath may be.

I used to live in Sussex about 16 years ago and whilst the water is not especially hard I was plagued with marked negatives. Up 'ere in Durham the water is very soft and gives no problems. A water filter or softener does not appear to be much use in hard water areas either

Since using the Rollie kits with the stabilsing bath, I have never had a problem with streaking or marks......unless you over-use the solution, because over time it will become contaminated. Or come to that, B&W gives no problems either, so long as a wetting agent is used every time.

The only solution for the final bath, i.e. Is to use distilled water to dilute the concentrate if you live in a hard watrer area. You can search the web and there are sites which will indicate the water state in all places in UK.

Last edited by John King; 1st September 2016 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 1st September 2016, 01:01 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
...as I understand it the stab for C41 is essential for the longevity of the film in that it stops "bugs" from feeding on the dyes.
Quite right, but if the film has to be washed again in water to remove marks, the benefit is lost.
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