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  #1  
Old 5th May 2017, 11:11 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Default Any tips for shooting on heavy overcast days?

If there's any group of photographers should know something about this question, it's you guys in the UK! So I'm curious to know how you get the most out of shooting in heavy weather. That is, heavy cloud cover, rainy or otherwise... I see some wonderful images here in the galleries and thread posts....like Brocks' in post #3 here: http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...light=overcast (Nicely done Brock!)

So what's the trick to this?

In the past, these are conditions I have tended to avoid, probably because I've never had pleasing results. But lately I've been shooting more in this kind of light. My results have been mixed, and it seems to depend on the film and developer I use, and of course development time wrt. contrast. FP4 and Rodinal, my latest films, have been disappointing. PanF in Rodinal is better. TMax 400 in D-76 seems OK. But none of them give me any sense of "light" or glow, if you know what I mean.

Lately I've been overexposing by about 1 stop but developing normally, which theoretically should give me a contrast boost but just seems to have made things worse. Looks pretty ugly, to be honest.

Is it better to shoot at box speed and extend development? If so, how much? N+10%? +30%?

Are there any films that work particularly well? I'm thinking in terms of their characteristic curves here. Say, TMX or TMY vs. FP4 or HP5?

On that theme, are there any film-developer combos that you like? I can't say I'm fond of how Rodinal makes things look in this light, but maybe I've just not tweaked it right yet. (FYI, I've been using it at 1+50, constant agitation first 30 sec., then 2 very gentle kips each minute thereafter).

Re. filters -- would a yellow or orange filter would have any effect? For example, to increase contrast in broken cloud? Such as in the bottom two in the left column in Brock's post.

Most interested in this question, and looking forward to hearing how you all deal with this.

Cheers,
Svend
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Old 6th May 2017, 07:53 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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It depends on how you work. I've tested the films I use with zone System tests for Effective EI and Development times to get optimal results in normal daylight. With Xtol or Rodinal my normal EI was half the box speed with Tmax 100/400.

It needs to be extremely overcast before I use N+2 development, usually it's foggy/misty conditions where I shoot and I use normal exposure/development.





I've other examples. Remember that the light tends to be softer here most of the time so our testing under normal conditions may vary from where you are.

When I used Rodinal I only used it at 1:50 for N+2 development, I preferred to use it slightly stronger 3:100 for Normal development and 1+25 for N-2. This was the way the late Pete Goldfield worked (he'd spent a year assisting Minor White).

I felt the negatives/prints were a touch lifeless with Rodinal at 1:50, that would be with Tmax 100 @ 50EI or Agfapan APX100 @ 100 EI.

Ian
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Old 6th May 2017, 09:37 AM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Just get out there and do it and you will be surprised with how good it can be, some of my best images have been made in these conditions. Ian has provided some excellent examples to get you thinking :-) I also find images around water work well in dull / overcast conditions.

You may want to consider not using your best equipment in the rain or a force 8 on a beach. I carry something that's cheap to replace for shooting when it's really bad.

Knowing how to push your film is useful to know just in case you have to, but I've only had to do this a few times. Or use a faster film if you can plan ahead on a trip - but I have found 400 ISO pushes to 800 ISO easily. The added grain quite often suits the image.

Lastly you will probably have to work fast if the weather is really dire so use a camera you know inside out and keep it dry with an improvised mac - I use a plastic bag. You may not be able to use a tripod so get used to using fences, walls or whatever is handy to steady your camera instead.

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Old 6th May 2017, 10:22 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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As Neil says just get out there and start shooting, I have taken some great images when the weather is dull,grey, especialy some of the many seascapes I shoot, the greyness seems to help sometimes, I find that very often an extra stop helps, I will shoot 400 at 200, and never use a filter for these conditions, at least not with my usual Fomapan,I always carry a plastic bag or mac as some protection for my camera if it is drizzely, I personally don't go out in anything other than drizzle, and for damp foggy conditions I often have a light or heavy coat on depending on the time of year, and carry the camera under my coat, getting it out to shoot, you won't have a tripod/monopod so a light camera such as a rangefinder is my best friend, without that Slr mirror you can hand hold down to very low speeds much easier, with a folder I always carry it closed, just open it to take the photo then close it straight away, and when I get home with a folder I leave it open for a bit to make sure the bellows are completely dry,
Richard
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Old 6th May 2017, 12:20 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Thanks guys - appreciate the feedback. I don't think it rains half as much here as in the UK, and it's rarely foggy. But lately when fog hits I'm out with the camera at first light.

Ian - some good insight. Sounds like TMX or TMY might be worth a try. They have a different curve than FP4, which is what I've been using lately, so they might respond better to this kind of light. I've never used them with Rodinal, only D76, so I think I'll stick with what I know for now and use D76. I'd bet TMX in replenished seasoned Microphen would have a nice glow to it in flat light....worth a try...

As an aside, and off-topic here - I think you may be onto something on Rodinal dilution. I've been experimenting with it lately, getting familiar, and have run quite a few films through it recently. And I am wondering where the famous sharpness is? I see a lot of mushy grain, is all. I get better sharpness from dilute D76 and Perceptol. Must be doing something wrong - too soft agitation or too low dilution, or both. Tonality is unique, though, and I especially like how PanF looks in it....it really glows. I will try a stronger dilution to see if improves things - thanks for the tip.

Back to overcast light.... Neil and Richard, you mentioned pushing your films. Do you guys push to gain contrast (which isn't technically-speaking a push then, I suppose, just longer development), or do you want to gain speed because of the low light?

Have you ever tried a yellow or orange filter to increase definition in the clouds? Any effect? Or a waste of a frame?

Thanks again for your help here.

Best,
Svend

Last edited by Svend; 6th May 2017 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 6th May 2017, 12:44 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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The two examples were Fortepan 200 and Delta 100 (6x17) both with Pyrocat HD. In the past I used Tmax 100 with Rodinal but the results were similar, it's an excellent film/developer combination finer grained than D76, I used them together for nearly 20 years.

Ian
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:32 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Svend
depends on the film, but with my Fomapan I don't need any filter it has slightly extended red response, and under normal light, IE sunlight and dramatic sky, the results with Fomapan 400 or 200 gives a Orane filter look without the filter, but with Ilford/kodak film then a filter would help, and on dull days such as what I am looking at today, grey,misty and light drizzle them I would expose at half box speed, develop in Rodinal 1/50 for 12 minutes, that gives me negatives that print well, if the light were realy low, say 1/30 at 5.6 then I would pish my film by a stop develop for 17 minutes at 1/50, as you can see Rodinal is virtualy the only developer I use and I like the results at 1/50, I mainly use Foma and it seems to suit the old fashioned film that Foma is
Richard
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:32 PM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Svend,
I would only push a film if I had to. An example would be if I had say HP5+ in my camera but the light levels were such that without a tripod a hand-held shot was too risky.

A push to 800 ISO has often saved a shoot. The last time I did this was not in adverse weather but inside an industrial museum where tripods were not allowed.

The reason I mentioned being competent in being able to uprate your chosen film is because often in adverse conditions you do not want to be out in them for long. Being able to work quickly without a tripod and a big bag of gear can sometimes pay off.

Neil.
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:40 PM
peterlg peterlg is offline
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The type of subject you're describing is low in contrast, probably not more than three zones, say z IV, V, VI. You could expose expose for the shadows, ie. put them on zone III (= underexposing by one stop) and then overdevelop by some two or three stops which would bring the highlights up to z VII or VIII. My experience tells me at least 50% overdevelopment (Delta100 and EXTOL undiluted). It's probably what Brock did with his so nice photos
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Old 6th May 2017, 02:45 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Good one! Some very helpful insight here. I knew I asked the right gang. .

I'm beginning to pull together some ideas and techniques from you all that should improve things considerably. Starting with a film with inherently more contrast, like TMax or PanF, then perhaps bumping up development time if possible, depending on what else is on the roll and the subject at hand. I will experiment with filters to see what effect they have. Then try tweaking my Rodinal technique to see if I can get some sharper grain out of it - at this point I'm not sure yet whether I'll stick with this developer...it may not be what I'm looking for, but I need to try it with some other films first before I quit it. Tmax in Rodinal is definitely worth a try. But perhaps it's tendency to push down the mid-tones may not suit this kind of light (to my eye anyway), and may mean that another developer would just look more pleasing to me....we'll see...

Peter, do you boost development by 50% as a matter of course when you shoot in this kind of light? At first glance it seems like a lot, but then that's just me being conservative...being a roll film user I don't tend to vary things much.

I wonder if Brock will see this and chime in with how he worked those images? Would be interesting to hear that...

Best,
Svend

Last edited by Svend; 6th May 2017 at 02:51 PM.
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