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  #11  
Old 8th February 2017, 08:23 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Effect of Halides

The long term effect would probably be very similar to a print being insufficiently washed. This can be reduced or eliminated by something like rinse aid which nulifies the effect.

Looking at it from another angle, there is very little for the residual halides to cling on to with resin coated paper - I assume that is what you are using. The problem would in all probability manifest itself more with fibre based paper, where the halides could penetrate the fibres and 'hide' from the running water in a water bath.

Just to give you confidence however, I have a series of prints for my two RPS panels which are now 12 and 14 years old and they are not showing any deterioration despite mimimal washing. Then I have half a dozen prints from the early 60's which are not too bad considering they also had minimal washing. They are only now starting to 'go'.

All of these early prints were on fibre based paper.
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  #12  
Old 8th February 2017, 10:15 PM
EdmundH EdmundH is offline
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Probably nothing to panic about then. I have used quite a lot of FB paper recently, but fortunately my washing procedure is rigorous. Hypo clear and anything up to an hour in a archival print washer.

Just to be safe I'll probably mix separate batches of stop bath and fixer in future though.
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  #13  
Old 9th February 2017, 09:02 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Washing prints

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmundH View Post
Hypo clear and anything up to an hour in a archival print washer.
I hope you are not on a water meter then. I am and have to be errrr....
careful
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  #14  
Old 9th February 2017, 09:41 AM
EdmundH EdmundH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I hope you are not on a water meter then. I am and have to be errrr....
careful
No, not likely! - although the print washer doesn't flow a massive amount of water. It's an old Paterson unit which uses a water powered piston to move the paper rack back and forth. Sounds like a steam engine.
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  #15  
Old 9th February 2017, 10:45 AM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I treat the stop bath and the fixer used with black and white developing and fixing the same way as I do with colour processes and have done for many years without a problem.

I have 2 x 2 litre transparent plastic bottles which are filled with the fixer and stop bath to exactly 2 litre capacity and mark the bottle.

After a session in the darkroom I calculate how many square inches of paper I have used and once it has reached 800 (10 sheets of 10x8, or the equivalent) I replenish with 100cc of new working strength stop and fix. It never fails.

If however after replenishment, the level is below that marked on the bottle, I top it up to the mark. (It can drop due to chemical 'carry-over and in some cases evaporation). Over replenishment does no harm.

As for film I use the guidelines given with the brand of fixer I happen to be using at the time and when the number of films suggested has been reached I replace with new. As a rough guide if the clearing time at 68 degrees is, shall we say 4 minutes, once this has reached 6 minutes. I dump it and make a new batch.

It's not rocket science, there is no need at all for testing. As I said before it NEVER fails.
Ilford state that the capacity of a litre of working strength fixer is 40 sheets of 10" x 8" fibre paper. So your freshly mixed 2 litre bottle of fixer will do 80 sheets without replenishment. You state that after fixing 10 sheets of 10 x 8 paper you replenish with 100cc of working strength fixer. As this is only a tenth of a litre, and a litre will do 40 sheets, your 100cc - or 100mls - will actually only do 4 sheets. So you are in effect taking a capacity of 10 out, and only replacing it with a capacity of 4. You will get away with this for several sessions because you started with a capacity to do 80 sheets. But if you fix 10 sheets per session, then after a few sessions your replenished fixer will no longer have the capacity to do 10 sheets.
No doubt you will say it works for you, but it isn't a method I would like to use. Much simpler to mix a litre of working strength fix, keep a note of how many sheets go through it, then ditch it when it has reached its capacity.

Alan
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  #16  
Old 9th February 2017, 09:59 PM
Jerry Bodine Jerry Bodine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
...never fix paper with fixer that has been used for film - there are halides in the fixer from the film that are very difficult to wash out of the paper.
I'd not ever heard this, so I queried a retired Kodak engineer for confirmation. I've edited his reply here:

...You probably should not use a fixer for paper that you used for film because the Iodide in film slows down fixation and can cause some image tone shifts. OTOH, this does not mean that you cannot. You just need longer fix times and longer wash times."

He did not offer how much longer fix times and wash times should be or offer details regarding image tone shift. Both would be of concern to me, so now I have to prepare separate containers for use film fixer and used paper fixer. Dang! I'm already hurting for space to store chem containers. But, I do appreciate the heads up.
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  #17  
Old 9th February 2017, 10:36 PM
John King John King is offline
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Alan your maths may be accurate for Ilford fixer but with replenishment, sometimes, no, usually every time, there is carry over and more fresh fixer is needed for the replenishment to bring the level back up to the full 2 litres.

However over a shortish time the fixer becomes discoloured with stop bath carry over and the dissolved silver from the prints that it is usually ditched well before I need to.

Also going back to the number of sheets that Ilford suggest that a litre of fixer can be used for what is the dilution rate 1-4 or 1-9? I always use 1-4 with Tetenal fixer, so the calculations from ilford may not correspond exactly.
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  #18  
Old 10th February 2017, 04:37 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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John, Ilford actually give the fixer replenishment idea the thumbs up. They say that, properly done, it can lead to very long life for the fixer bath. For 1+4 working strength, and fibre paper, they recommend regular replenishment at a rate of 500ml/square metre. This is 250ml per 10 sheets of 10x8 paper. You say you are only using 100ml/ 10 sheets, but with Tetenal Fixer. Don't know what they recommend.

Alan
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