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  #11  
Old 17th September 2016, 08:28 AM
John King John King is offline
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I have sent an E mail to Ilford and received a reply advising me that it hs been passed onto the tech department.

If after all this I get a reply and the formula turns out to be the same or very close to the Beutler one then I will look no further.
I had some made up for me and it was very very cheap.

If I remember correctly the stock solution was in 2 x 1000cc bottles with the Metol being kept seperate from the other two and just before use they were mixed together and water added at a ratio of 1-9.
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  #12  
Old 19th September 2016, 05:59 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Reply from Ilford

As below.

Dear Mr King,
Thank you for your enquiry.
At the moment our policy is not to disclose formulae even if they have
not been manufactured for many years.
I have asked for this to be reconsidered.
In the meantime, what I can tell you is that Hyfin was a "metol only"
developer. Our nearest current analogue would be Perceptol.
I would not see any point in us re-releasing Hyfin considering the
existence of Perceptol.
Regards,
David Abberley


I have looked at 'perceptol developer on the web and from what is stated there I cannot see his reasoning. Hyfin as I knew it was an 'accutance' developer, not a fine grain type. Hyfin also gave up to one stop extra speed, Perceptol does the opposite plus Perceptol has two other chemicals as well as metol. I am still non the wiser.

Last edited by John King; 19th September 2016 at 06:08 PM. Reason: More information
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  #13  
Old 20th September 2016, 01:30 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Hi John,

Not that I am an expert on developer chemistry or the composition of Perceptol specifically, but as far as I know Perceptol uses only Metol as the developing agent...

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ead.php?p=6981

Thornton speaks a lot about Perceptol in the Edge of Darkness book, and he confirms that it is a Metol-only formula.

I use Perceptol a fair bit, and have for many years, but only in dilute form (1+1 or 1+2 usually). Once diluted it does act as an acutance developer. Thornton liked it for that reason. I can confirm that it does render very sharp negs. I can email you a couple of recent images done on HP-5 in dilute Perceptol if you're interested -- just PM me.

I seem to recall Thornton mentioning that it does give full film speed when diluted, except for D-400 and HP-5 where I think it loses about 1/3 stop, which is minimal. But with the latter films it loses a full stop when used undiluted, if I recall. In any case, further to your comparison to Hyfin, it definitely doesn't GAIN speed, but at least if you use it diluted it won't lose much (if any) speed either.

As for image quality, acutance aside, it does give a tonally softer appearance than say, ID-11/D-76, which is my other main developer. The latter gives more punch and grit; the former is more smooth toned and mellow. Very, very nice for certain subjects. Highlight control for high contrast scenes is excellent if used diluted, esp. at 1+3.

Hope this helps, and let us know if you experiment with any brews and if you nail the Hyfin clone.

Svend
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  #14  
Old 20th September 2016, 08:26 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Some have claimed Hyfin contained Glycin, if David Abberly is correct it's almost certainly the formula given by Mason. All his other formulae were made commercially by Ilford.

Hyfin was a one part packet developer in sachets to make 600ml (5 per box) it differs from Beutler using less Metol but more Carbonate (so a higher pH), as a consequence it gives slightly higher acutance and is also slightly grainier. Manyfound it too grainy with 35mm films other than Pan F, but excellent with 120 FP3/4.

It is not remotely similar to Perceptol (except for using only Metol) which is a solvent type developer using 10% Sulphite and 2.5% Sodium Chloride at a much lower pH. End results are quite different.

Ian

Last edited by Lostlabours; 20th September 2016 at 08:34 AM. Reason: add link etc
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  #15  
Old 20th September 2016, 09:23 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostlabours View Post
It is not remotely similar to Perceptol (except for using only Metol) which is a solvent type developer using 10% Sulphite and 2.5% Sodium Chloride at a much lower pH. End results are quite different.

Ian
Ian, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but as I understand it a solvent developer ceases to become so when used diluted and the sulphite drops well below a certain concentration. Which is one of the reasons so many people use Perceptol and ID-11/D-76 as one-shot dilute solutions.

Irrespective of that, as you say, even when used as a dilute brew Perceptol is probably quite different from Hyfin by virtue of pH and the use of NaCl. It would make for an interesting thread here if anyone tries the Mason formula and compares it to other acutance developers.

Cheers,
Svend
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  #16  
Old 20th September 2016, 09:57 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Yes, when solvent type developers like Perceptol are diluted the acutance improves but there's an increase in grain. An ideal dilution with Perceptol is 1+2, it's the same with ID-11/D76 or Xtol, this dilution is quite economic and gives a good balance of Acutance and fine grain. It's a dilution I' used to use when not replenishing.

I tried most of these formulae a few years ago but finally settled on one developer Pyrocat HD a few years ago because of it's excellent fine grain & acutance and negatives that are remarkably easy to print (or scan).

The disadvantages of high acutance developers like Hyfin and poor tonality and graininess but that suited a style that was prevalent in the 60's and early 70's.

Ian
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  #17  
Old 20th September 2016, 10:17 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Ian, funny you should have pegged Perceptol at 1+2 as being ideal. I happened upon that more or less by accident when I wanted to use up the rest of a bottle of stock and diluted it 1+2 just to fill the tank. I liked what I saw and have used it (most of the time) at that conc'n ever since.

Your comment on Pyrocat is interesting...I am in the process of setting up a new darkroom (first time in over 20 years! Hooray!) and going forward with new films the question of getting negs that are easy to print is front and center in my mind. I've plenty of experience with dilute solvent developers, but really want to try out dilute Rodinal and Pyrocat. The latter, in particular, intrigues me, and your comment gives further impetus to try it.

Are you still in Canada?

Cheers,
Svend

PS - apologies to John for any thread drift.... :-)
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  #18  
Old 20th September 2016, 11:20 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Bill Spears uses Perceptol at 1+2 for his MF work and the quality of his images is exceptionally good.

Back from Canada and been using Pyrocat for the films shot there. Pyrocat is like Rodinal on steroids it's much better and thats saying something as Rodinal is an excellent developer.

Ian
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  #19  
Old 20th September 2016, 11:24 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Sounds like great stuff, that Pyrocat. Thanks Ian. Hope the trip went well.

Svend
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