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  #21  
Old 14th May 2021, 08:08 AM
ianbarber ianbarber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
What is the basic price that say a batch of film could be bought from Ilford or one of it's trade distributors. That could show the percentage mark-up imposed by the likes of AG or First-Call.
10 Rolls FP4 35mm 36 Exposures = 49.00 + VAT - Trade
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  #22  
Old 14th May 2021, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbarber View Post
10 Rolls FP4 35mm 36 Exposures = 49.00 + VAT - Trade
That equates to 58.80. Ag are currently charging 56.06 for a 10 pack of FP4 Plus 35mm 36 exposure so a mark down, not a mark up. As I understand from talking to shops/dealers the larger the quantity you order the better the discount from Ilford. So if the business took off Ian may get a better price from Ilford in the future. Ian says that is for 10 rolls, what if he were to order say 1,000 rolls or 10,000 rolls which is what the bigger outlets may do?

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Last edited by Bill; 14th May 2021 at 09:38 AM.
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  #23  
Old 14th May 2021, 11:11 AM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
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You will need a fridge with a massive salad drawer to store that much film.
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  #24  
Old 14th May 2021, 11:42 AM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbarber View Post
I have just done the sums on a 10 pack of FP4. If I sold it at the price AG Photo are selling it at which is 61.00 including Postage then I would make a loss.
Wow, I didn't realise that some smaller traders were operating on such small margins. But as said, as ones trade orders get bigger, presumably the discount would increase for the business seller.

I see it in the same way that restaurants are said to operate, in that they break even or just above on the food, but make the profits on the wine etc. The suggestion that buyers like to purchase various good on one order to even out the p/p, with the dealers making a better profit on some goods rather than others, now makes sense.

Terry S
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  #25  
Old 14th May 2021, 01:22 PM
John King John King is offline
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Unfortunately the way it operates it won't be until a new company is established I cannot see any supplier being happy to give a discount on modest amounts.

Ian it is a terrific idea but one that has massive hurdles to get over. Perhaps, initially making a loss may make up for large orders to get established where things may even out. It is one heck of a gamble.

You use medium format, is that a better bet to get started with and the 35mm and 120 as an add on

For an initial order, that will have to be impressive itself for Ilford to take notice and not think you are a private individual trying to by-pass the normal retail path.
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  #26  
Old 14th May 2021, 04:59 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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It sort of presents an intriguing possibility, if the discount rises as the order to Ilford gets larger as follows:

Ian buys several thousand rolls of say Ilford's best seller. Let's assume that is HP5+. He then negotiates a deal with some courier delivery firm.

He is a one item seller with no overheads other than a very large set of chest freezers/refrigerators so his picking and packing for customers is very straightforward.

In that situation could he make a small profit and still undercut other retailers? It might be possible but it would require finding and tying-up a large amount of money in the first place and being sure that his price would be both low enough but still profitable for him to contemplate it?

It seems to me that as a one item seller in this scenario it still represents some real risks for what may be a small return.

Those risks being obtaining a large loan and servicing the debt and even larger still, the risk that customers would still not beat a path to his door in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile

Mike
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  #27  
Old 14th May 2021, 06:09 PM
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Ag is making a profit (albeit a small one) - you have forgotten about the VAT. As a business, you would be registered for VAT so you would claim back the input VAT (the tax your supplier charged you) but you would have to add VAT to the sales price and send the difference off to HMRC. So, if you get charged 100 in VAT and later charge your customer 110 VAT when selling those goods, you send HMRC 10 and that is all it has cost you in VAT - not the 100 you paid your supplier in the first place. That is massively simplified as: (a) VAT is complicated and (b) I only know the massively simplified version! I am not an accountant - I accept no responsibility for knocks on the door at 7am followed by four HMRC heavies shoving past you with a search warrant ).

If you are not registered for VAT (earn under the threshold - whatever that is now) you will pay the VAT to your supplier but will not charge VAT to your customer and so cannot claim anything back.

Anyway, selling film is the wrong business - the markup on Winchester bottles is about 150-200%... I just bought 12 x 1litre amber bottles incl coned caps from a lab supply company for 3 each (inc carriage & VAT!) - have a look-see what some of the photo shops are charging

Last edited by Bob; 14th May 2021 at 06:23 PM.
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  #28  
Old 14th May 2021, 09:33 PM
ianbarber ianbarber is offline
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All very interesting and I am now thinking that although the idea seemed a good one to start with, its not going to be viable at all even when the VAT threshold is met.

Sometimes things are just not meant to be I am afraid
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  #29  
Old 15th May 2021, 11:08 AM
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I believe you can volunteer to register for VAT even if you do not earn enough from the business to be required to do so. It's lot of paperwork tho - but easier these days I hear as they have simplified the process somewhat for small businesses.
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  #30  
Old 15th May 2021, 11:41 AM
John King John King is offline
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Bob is right about voluntary registration but what you have to do remains a mystery.
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