Split grade printing

[Mike O'Pray]

John,I think the sky is slightly better in the split grade print but there's not a lot in it and maybe it's just my preference. However I agree that the split grade version does make the pebbles look muddier and grey which is what is maybe what will happen with 90Y in the split grade version as opposed to no Y in the grade 5

As the prints needs to be G5 to look as the scene was on the day I am wondering if your negative lacks contrast to an extent that needs a straight G5 to look right

If this is the case then my understanding is that split grade will not improve a print from a negative that inherently requires all the contrast that your enlarge can give it.

In short I think you may have chosen a negative for split grade printing that cannot be improved this way.

Where split grade really comes into its own is in negs that have very high contrast where you tend to have blown out highlights when you use enough exposure to get decent shadow detail.

My own very limited experience of split grade was a print of a black Labrador and a near white Retriever messing around together in sunshine in a river so highlights with decent shadow detail in a straight print was near impossible. Split grade made a tremendous difference here but I suspect my neg looked quite different from yours.

Your neg I suspect doesn't fall into the same category as my neg.

Just my two pence worth and I may be wrong. I await others' opinions

Mike

[Tony Marlow]

I found in several forums across the internet, they must all be completely wrong, none of them mix 2 colours, grade 2 is no filtration, everything before that is a Y value and everything after it is a M value.

You can get the contrast on colour enlargers two ways.
1) By user single values of yellow for softer grades and single values of magenta for harder grades but the higher values of colour filters need more exposure than the mid values. A point to bear in mind if you change contrast once you have established your exposure.
2) The alternative is to use a combination of yellow and magenta and by varying the ratio you change the contrast. The advantage of this method you can change the contrast without having to change the exposure.

The values of colour filtration vary from paper to paper and you need to look at the information sheet which comes with every box of paper. For example with Ilford papers Grade 2 using single colours is no filtration Grade 00 199yellow and grade 5 199 magenta.
Using a combination of two colours Grade 2 is 41Y/32M, grade 00 162Y/0M and grade 4 1/2 0Y/150M Grade 5 not being able to be achieved.

Generally there two types of coloured filters used by enlarger manufacturers and these are the Durst values and the Kodak values (Meopta use their own). For LPL enlargers you use the Kodak values given by paper manufactures. If you look at the bottom of the Ilford information sheet sections 3, 4 and 5 set out this information and give all the filter values for all the grades in half steps using single colours, section 4 and two colours, section 5. Section 3 tell you which makes of enlargers use Durst values and which use Kodak values.
Bear in mind that the values for other paper manufactures will be different.
I hope this helps.

Tony

[JohnX]

It does help Tony....sort of, it throws it all back up in the air though.

The values printed in the literature that comes with Ilford VC are what I've been using.
LPL falls in to the Kodak bracket, Section 4 gives single filtration grade 0 as 90-Y, section 5 gives mixed filtration grade 0 as 90-Y and 0-M, so I'm back to 90-Y for grade 0.
Its 15...20 years since I printed on an old b/w Bessler with Ilford filters, I knew where I was with those, mixing with a colour head has not been a smooth transition.
Lately I've been printing Grade 5, well 4 1/2 (no mixing required) and dodging highlights to get a base print, but its time to move on.

I'm just gonna go back and print, with what you've said and the very fair comments on the suitability of the beach neg from Mike, thanks Mike, I need to work through a lot more paper and negs to iron it out a bit.

[alexmuir]

Hi John. If you liked the Ilford filters, it may be worth getting a set for your current enlarger. There is a lot to be said for their simplicity, and knowing that, at least with Ilford papers, you will get the stated grade. I use the kit that fits below the lens on my Durst enlarger. You can pick up a used set quite cheaply. SDS or The Imaging Warehouse probably have some. If you do decide to get them, just check first that the holder will fit your enlarger.
Alex

[Argentum]

What the actual grades are is irrelavant for split grade printing.
You can just use maximum yellow for your soft print and maximum magenta for your hard print all the time to begin with.
But as already pointed out, they will have different print times due different densities of Max Y and Max M.

However that really doesn't matter because you should expect to get different print times with your soft and your hard exposures anyway.
What is important that you judge correctly how much time each requires from your test strips.

So don't worry about how much of each to dial in, just dial in max of each and dont try and mix Y+M. Yes you can do it that way but it won't gain you anything you can't get with using a single filter. Infact you will get a wider range of contrast between the two using only single filters.
If you want to use combined Y+M I would get a set of under the lens Ilford Multi Grade Filters. They keep exposure times relatively constant for normal printing except 4 and up grades use twice the exposure time so even these very well matched filters won't make your soft and hard exposure times the same when split grade printing. They wouldn't even if you didn't have to double times for grades 4 and up.

So what you read elsewhere isn't wrong, it just isn't the only way and is as good as using combined Y+M filters.

When you get more practised at it then you can think about using less of either Y or M but to start off I would use max Y or max M.

LPL isn't known for being able to get much over grade 4 anyway so you're already starting with a lower contrast differential between soft and hard exposures. Doesn't make sense to me to reduce that further when it isn't necessary.

[Adrian Twiss]

Originally Posted by alexmuir

If strips on the test are hard to distinguish, you could put marks on your test strip with a pen, before exposure. They should be dark enough to see by enlarger light. You then place your card on each successive mark as you expose the test. This is useful even if you are not doing split grade.

I make test strips in 1/6 of a stop increments and find marking each step with a pen very useful and essential in high key prints.

[RH Designs]

Don't get hung up on filtration values. For split-grade printing you want to use the hardest and softest contrast your enlarger can produce so just dial in max Y for the soft exposure and max M for the hard. That way you can achieve the entire range of contrast of which your enlarger is capable.

If your neg is soft, start with the hard exposure, and vice versa.

LPL enlargers use Kodak filtration values so if you want the intermediate grades use those published by Ilford and reproduced on my website at http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/darkroom/..._settings.html.

However at the end of the day you want to match the print contrast to the negative irrespective of what notional grade it happens to be - and split-grade printing's a comparatively easy way of doing that if you don't have an enlarging exposure meter.

[photomi7ch]

Originally Posted by JohnX

Aha!

Well that makes a lot of sense, I made a chart and stuck it to my darkroom wall with all the filtration values from 00 to 5 in half steps using values I found in several forums across the internet, they must all be completely wrong, none of them mix 2 colours, grade 2 is no filtration, everything before that is a Y value and everything after it is a M value.
I can't find that value you give for 0 anywhere, in fact I can't find a bonafida document that gives the correct values for this LPL at all, its all hearsay, "I think" and "these might be".
Is this a value you've calculated yourself or is there somewhere I can get the rest from Mitch ?
I was thinking I might have to bust out a 100 pack of 10x8 and go on a 3 day test strip marathon..

Different makes of colour enlargers have separate values for multigade papers.

I was given the values by friend, He told me that they were not set in stone but would get me on the right track. I have used these for years and have not felt the need to test them. I think the result I have achieved speak for themselves.

The filter setting are as follows:
Grade 0 yellow 150, magenta 25, G 0.5, Y110, M33. G1 Y85, M42. G1.5 Y70 M55. G2 Y55 M70. G2.5 Y42 M80. G3 Y30 M90. G3.5 Y18 M112. G4 Y6 M135. G4.5 Y6 M135. G5 Y0 M200+

I hope this puts you on the right track

[skellum]

John, I've read this a couple of times now. Forgive me, but how much printing experience do you have, and is there a particular reason for experimenting with split grade?
I do use split grade, but tend to reserve it for difficult negatives- its main advantage being the ability to dodge and burn different areas at different grades. The different combinations of G zero and G5 still simply equate to a single fixed grade.
The reason I ask about your print experience is that there are a couple of things puzzling me in your results.
First- your beach scene. Taken in midday sunlight, which ought to produce a very harsh negative. However, you made your best print at grade 5. I would have expected a far softer grade. Also, some of your print times are very short. I'm wondering if your negs are perhaps a bit thin, and low in contrast??
So- what film are you using and what dev?
What size are you printing?

I very much apologise if you're experienced in the darkroom and this sounds too simple, but here's what I'd do-
I'd make a series of prints (and they don't need to be big) at your softest grade (Max yellow only) hardest grade (max magenta only) and NO filtration (on Ilford multigrade it equals about G2).
It'll give you an idea of what your system can produce.
There should be a real difference in contrast between them. If not, it suggests your built in dichroic filters may be faded.

When you try split grade, remember two things-
First, dry down. As the test strip dries your hight values will change more than very dark tones, and it's judging the high tones which give you the G Zero time. Next, remember the second G5 exposure still adds some density to your high tones!

Can you do a negative swap with someone- it would give you feedback on the quality of your negs, and help identify if you were actually suffering from a processing fault of some kind??

When I started using split grade I pretty consistently overdid the G zero exposure, and the result was rather muddy prints.

cheers!

[Maris]

Skellum is right. If you give the entire picture area an exposure with soft grade filtration and follow that with an overall hard grade exposure the result is matched EXACTLY by what you would get by selecting the appropriate intermediate contrast grade. There's no point, no advantage, in adding the complexity of split grade filtration for straight gelatin-silver photographs.

Where split grade exposures are supremely powerful is in local tonal control: dodging and/or burning-in with a filter different from the one used for the main exposure. Before variable contrast paper was perfected even the grand masters of photography could not match what we can achieve in rendering different parts of the picture with different contrasts.