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> The lack of cold VC papers |
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#1
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The lack of cold VC papers
Whilst the number of papers still available is surprisingly high there is a clear bias towards neutral/warm materials from the major suppliers. Don't get me wrong, I favour warmer tones generally and use MGW FB as my main paper but when going for a colder feel the choices are limited.
I like Kentmere Fineprint FB, especially glossy, but it does run out of steam in the higher grades and shadows can block up a fair bit. I don't see MG FB as particularly cold and selenium pushes it towards purple. I have often resorted to using warmer papers in cold developer like Dokumol or doing a quick gold tone at the end but it's not quite the same. Forte used to make a lovely coldtone paper in VC but that's obviously in the past. What cooler VC FB papers are you using? Steve |
#2
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Not directly answering your question, but the problem with trying to cool a warm tone paper is that you are fighting the warm toned base colour. That suggests that it should be easier to cool a standard paper.
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#3
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Quite a lot depends on which developers you are using. I would call Ilford Multigrade a neutral developer. For a cooler result with any paper try using Dektol or similar.
I make my own - see http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ead.php?t=1826 Rob |
#4
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If you are a dyed in the wool FB person then ignore this but I found the Ilford RC Cooltone paper much cooler than the neutral MGIV. There seemed to be a bigger difference between the colour of MG and CT than between MG and WT.
I used the now defunct Ilford CT developer but I feel sure there are other CT devs which are just as cold. Might be worth a few sheets for a trial if you fail to find a really cold FB paper. Mike |
#5
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In reference to my experimentation with paper tone colour and developers this time last year, assuming a fibre base paper, I would suggest developing a white base warm tone paper in a very warm developer (e.g. ID-78 or Adox / Agfa WA @ 1+3 to 1+7 dilution) before gold toning. This process can be cumbersome and expensive but I couldn't achieve similar results using supposedly cold tone developers with papers such as Kentmere Bromide or Kentmere Fineprint etc(*). - a possible conclusion is that Benzotriazole doesn't make as much difference as is sometimes claimed.
If one processes a warm paper in a cold tone developer, the warm tone will return during toning. - try it and see. Cooltone RC in D-72 gives good results but as Mike notes it isn't a fibre base paper. Tom * I didn't only test Kentmere papers, I'm simply giving an illustrative example of papers which are sometimes claimed to be "cold tone". Last edited by Tom Kershaw; 28th March 2010 at 07:27 PM. Reason: added note |
#6
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I've wondered about benzotriazole. I've tried it in Ilford PQ Universal (which I seem to recall was recommended for this treatment) using MGIV WT and Kentmere Fineprint and in both cases all it did was increase development time as I put in more and more of the 2% solution (this I assume showing that it was indeed doing something). Even my colour densitometer could not detect a colour shift in highlights or shadows...
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#7
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Quote:
Your experiences seem to mirror my own, although I worked with both commercial developers and scratch mixed formulas with varying levels of Benzotriazole and Potassium Bromide. Potassium Iodide does produce blue tones but is expensive and also acts as a massive restrainer, eventually producing grainy results that seem to washout out with the accompanying all over yellow stain. Perhaps Benzotriazole produced stronger effects with papers of 40 or 50 years ago. Tom |
#8
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Benzotriazole (BZT) does not work with all papers. I've had better results with Kentmere than with Ilford paper. I also haven't found a true cold-tone FB VC paper. That said, Kentmere Fineprint Warmtone appears to be a neutral emulsion coated on a warm base. It responds reasonably well to added BZT, giving cold shadows and warmer highlights. If I want a colder print I use Kentmere Bromide in either E72 (see above) or Beers 2-bath. It's not VC, but a fair degree of contraol is achievable with the Beers. I can get approximately grade 1.5 to 3.5.
It's also worth noting that as well as slowing development, BZT increases contrast slightly. Rob Last edited by Rob Archer; 28th March 2010 at 08:59 PM. Reason: brain-typing interface mismatch! |
#9
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This has made me think. I got some old Afga MCP a while ago which was clearly age fogged and tried benzotriazole. In the end I had to use a fair bit of it and it worked well but come to think of it, I certainly don't remember think how much colder the MCP then appeared to be. Mind you and this again is very subjective I think that MCP( original Agfa stuff) is a little warmer than MGIV.
Mike |
#10
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Kentmere Bromide does seem to offer a distinctive contrast characteristic that can sometimes be a little too "dynamic" compared to the more predictable response of Ilfobrom Galerie grades 2 and 3. Back on the topic of gold toning: Gold toning lith processed Fomatone MG emulsion papers produces a very strong blue-black against the off-white background. Tom |
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