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  #1  
Old 3rd January 2020, 02:37 PM
soulstar soulstar is offline
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Default Ilford hp5+ in id11 1+2 times

Firstly happy new year to everyone!! i hope we all have a fruitful photographic 2020.

I am new to this forum so before i decided to post this i searched for my question.

so.. i am looking for times for id11 1+2 with hp5. ilford show times for 1+1 (13mins) and 1+3 (20mins). The difference between the two is 7 mins so i would presume developing for 16.5mins would be the time. these are the updated ilford times.

i found a post by alan clark back in 2014 which stated that 14 mins for 1+2 with hp5 and tri-x worked well for him. it was confusing as its only 1 min more than 1+1. not sure if it was before the most updated times.

so i ask what times have you guys used? i metered at 400 with a incident light meter



cheers
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  #2  
Old 3rd January 2020, 05:50 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Welcome to the forum. I found a time on what is commonly referred to as the MDC( Massive Development Chart). It's a site in which you put in your film and developer and it comes up with times. These times are user times but usually follow manufacturer's times but where manufacturers do not list times then the MDC provides times that users have submitted from their own "cut and try" experience.
Sometimes those times can be other than what you might expect as a lot depends on the individual circumstances as they pertained to that user and his/her best time in his/her opinion but generally I find them reasonably reliable

In your case the time given for box speed at a dilution of 1+2 is 15.25 mins so 16.5 mins should give you very printable negatives

Indeed it may turn out that 16.5 mins gives preferable negatives in your case and your logic is what I'd have used without any other sources.

We are only talking about an 8% difference here and this is only 1 mins 15 secs beyond the 15.25 in the MDC so only a small extension.

Unless every neg is vital I think I might be tempted to cut the film in half and developer each half for the times respectively. You will ruin a negative of course unless you mare incredibly luck and cut exactly between frames but you will get a good idea of whether you need to go either side of the two times or even go for a middle time

Best of luck. While we are solely an analogue forum and expect darkroom prints rather than scans of negatives as prints, in the case of film problems I believe that a straight scan of the negative is acceptable. This might be useful info for other users contemplating this particular combo and will help us make suggestions, should you want them on what changes you might want to make

If I have this wrong in terms of FADU rules the moderators will no doubt intervene .

Mike
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  #3  
Old 3rd January 2020, 06:09 PM
soulstar soulstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Welcome to the forum. I found a time on what is commonly referred to as the MDC( Massive Development Chart). It's a site in which you put in your film and developer and it comes up with times. These times are user times but usually follow manufacturer's times but where manufacturers do not list times then the MDC provides times that users have submitted from their own "cut and try" experience.
Sometimes those times can be other than what you might expect as a lot depends on the individual circumstances as they pertained to that user and his/her best time in his/her opinion but generally I find them reasonably reliable

In your case the time given for box speed at a dilution of 1+2 is 15.25 mins so 16.5 mins should give you very printable negatives

Indeed it may turn out that 16.5 mins gives preferable negatives in your case and your logic is what I'd have used without any other sources.

We are only talking about an 8% difference here and this is only 1 mins 15 secs beyond the 15.25 in the MDC so only a small extension.

Unless every neg is vital I think I might be tempted to cut the film in half and developer each half for the times respectively. You will ruin a negative of course unless you mare incredibly luck and cut exactly between frames but you will get a good idea of whether you need to go either side of the two times or even go for a middle time

Best of luck. While we are solely an analogue forum and expect darkroom prints rather than scans of negatives as prints, in the case of film problems I believe that a straight scan of the negative is acceptable. This might be useful info for other users contemplating this particular combo and will help us make suggestions, should you want them on what changes you might want to make

If I have this wrong in terms of FADU rules the moderators will no doubt intervene .

Mike
hi mike. thank you very much for the warm welcome and also this great information. funnily enough i actually have the app of massive development chart on my iphone. I checked and it didnt have any info on shooting at box speed. i went to the main web site and it was listed. weird.

i shall be printing and also scanning. the scan will come first. it would be very helpful for future reference to log differences. i will head into town tomorrow and pick up more hp5 and use those rolls to determine weather 15.25 or 16.5 has any difference.

thanks again
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  #4  
Old 3rd January 2020, 06:29 PM
marty marty is offline
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Hello and welcome to the forum. 16.5' sounds a reasonable starting point to me. Keep in mind that there in no linear relationship between development time and developer concentration. A clip test is a good way to determine a time that will work best for you,

Cheers. M.
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  #5  
Old 4th January 2020, 02:12 AM
soulstar soulstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty View Post
Hello and welcome to the forum. 16.5' sounds a reasonable starting point to me. Keep in mind that there in no linear relationship between development time and developer concentration. A clip test is a good way to determine a time that will work best for you,

Cheers. M.
hi marty thanks for the advise. i didnt realise there is no linear relationship between developer and concentration. im still learning about developing. for instance reducing the developing time by around 20% when you reduce the ei of film for example hp5 400-200. i guess this makes the highlights more controlled while opening up the shadows
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Old 4th January 2020, 09:25 AM
marty marty is offline
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That's right,as the old saying states, expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. If you shorten the development time to keep the highlights in a printable range you'll notice that the darkest shadows will invariably become too light and "washed out". To counter act this you'll need more exposure. Halving the EI and cut the time by a 20% is a starting point generally adviced. Looking at you prints will tell you what you need to do . Since you're still learning my advice is not to start blindly to play with EIs and development times following what you read here and there but rather starting with the manufacturer indications and see for yourself what happens. Shoot a test roll, make some prints, then start adjusting following the above rules. That will build for you a solid base of knowledge.

Cheers M.
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  #7  
Old 4th January 2020, 10:39 AM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Welcome to the forum Soulstar, and congratulations on choosing the excellent combination of HP5 developed in ID11 at 1+2. I have been using this combination for at least 10 years and have found that it gives me four real benefits.
1. By choosing the right development time - I use 12 minutes - I get a lot of control over contrast so my negatives are very easy to print.
2. By exposing the film at 200 iso there is little or no compression of the mid-tones and this results in better-looking prints.
3. The dilution of 1+2 gives noticeably sharper results than 1+1. There is a very slight increase in grain, but this shows itself as a crisping up of the grain, rather than an increase, and makes the prints look sharper. 11 inch wide prints on 12 x 9.5 inch paper look very crisp.
4. A fast enough shutter speed for hand-held 35mm photography.


You will be aware that, for film exposed on a sunny day it is the usual practice to give more exposure and less development. The reduced development is to stop the film highlights getting too dense, and the extra exposure is to ensure the mid-tones don't come out too dark in the print (which they otherwise would with reduced development) People usually come up with a reduced development time based on film exposed in full sun - and it is often referred to as Normal-1, or N-1. My development time of 12 minutes is based not on full sun, but on photographs taken in hazy sun. This is my favourite light. With film rated at 200 and developed for 14 minutes in 1+2 ID11, I get negatives that usually print on Grade 2.5. If the sun comes out full whack I carry on photographing knowing these frames will probably print well on Grade 1.5. If the sun goes in I get negatives that print on about Grade 3.5. On a really dull day I usually stay at home and do a bit of guitar making!
So what I have got is a no-fuss system that is easy to operate and gives reliable high-quality results.
Hope this helps.

Alan
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Old 5th January 2020, 06:00 PM
marty marty is offline
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Hello, Alan. Thank you for sharing in such detailed way your recipe. Which type of enlarger do you print with?

Cheers, M.
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Old 5th January 2020, 06:41 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Hello Marty,
I use a Leitz Valoy 11 for 35mm and a Meopta Magnifax for 120 film; both condenser enlargers. I imagine a diffuser enlarger would dictate a longer development time. Agitation comes into play here as well. I invert the tank, and back, slowly. 4 times at the start of development, then once every 30 seconds. I don't say this is the best method, but however you do it, I think it pays to do the same every time.

Alan
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  #10  
Old 8th January 2020, 07:11 PM
soulstar soulstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty View Post
That's right,as the old saying states, expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. If you shorten the development time to keep the highlights in a printable range you'll notice that the darkest shadows will invariably become too light and "washed out". To counter act this you'll need more exposure. Halving the EI and cut the time by a 20% is a starting point generally adviced. Looking at you prints will tell you what you need to do . Since you're still learning my advice is not to start blindly to play with EIs and development times following what you read here and there but rather starting with the manufacturer indications and see for yourself what happens. Shoot a test roll, make some prints, then start adjusting following the above rules. That will build for you a solid base of knowledge.

Cheers M.
thanks for the advise
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