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  #1  
Old 7th August 2022, 04:13 PM
ssharp ssharp is offline
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Default Streaks on Ilford Warmtone

Hi All,

I've come across an issue in the past but turned a blind eye to it, however it happened again on more than one occasion today so thought i'd see if anyone has an idea.

Basically it's streaks running across certain areas of the print. Fairly fine lines, almost like running paint would leave on a wall. They run side to side on these examples.

Film is trix and i can't see a mark on it. Also it doesn't happen every time. I processed two prints identically and simultaneously from start to finish, same agitation in the same baths together etc and one had the marks and the other didn't. This has happened before too.

I'm fairly sure this is an emulsion issue but before i call Ilford just thought i'd see if there was a smoking gun anyplace.

Cheers,

Simon
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  #2  
Old 7th August 2022, 05:38 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
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I think if the emulsion on the paper was applied in a streaky manner at the factory it would be all in the same direction, either across the short side or more probably along the long side.
You have streaks corresponding to the both formats.
You have streaks in the same horizontal plane as would occur when viewing the print correctly. Both landscape and portrait.

Some commercial print developers I have used in the past required a thorough mixing.
I used to just pour the concentrate into the tray and then the water, a quick swirl was not enough to mix the two together.
I had similar results when mixing like this. A good mix in a jug is required.

When I put a print into the developer I hold the front end of the tray up to form a deep puddle at the far end. The paper is dipped into the puddle and at the same time the tray front is lowered quickly so that a wave of developer washes the full length of the print.
A couple of rocks front to back then a few side to side, alternating front to back and side to side to avoid any streaks in unmixed developer.

If both prints were developed together and in the correct viewing orientation, the above may explain your problem.

So. A good mix of the developer.
Create a good wave to cover the entire print in one go.
Alternate the rocking of the dish forwards and sideways.

Good luck with the printing.

Cheers.


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Old 7th August 2022, 05:40 PM
John King John King is offline
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Is it fibre based or resin coated? if it is the first I would suggest uneven drying but apart from that I have no idea. Best speaking to Ilford I think.
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Old 7th August 2022, 07:28 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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ssharp, all I can see on my monitor are two pics with some pinkish/magenta colour in them.

Is it possible to mark the streaks with the usual red outline to make it clearer where the streaks are?

I take these streaks are clearly there on both prints or is it only one and if so which one Maybe the colour I mention is simply a scanning artefact

Am I the only one who sees this colour in the scans of prints?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 7th August 2022, 08:40 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is online now
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It looks like it could be inadequate mixing of developer, as Nat mentioned above. The other possibility is an issue with storage, perhaps heat, or moisture caused by changes in temperature?
Alex


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Old 7th August 2022, 10:04 PM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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An interesting point in this post from 2000 but nevertheless still relevant today, about tray chemical contamination.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-an...?msg_id=002dff

There really is no substitute for dedicated trays, jugs, bottles etc.

Not saying this is your problem but I hope you find the source.
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Old 8th August 2022, 08:17 AM
ssharp ssharp is offline
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Hi All,

Yes, Nat got me thinking. What i forgot to mention is that i'm processing in Nova FB slot processor. The first slot for dev is not far from vertical, just leaning back slightly.

I use a Nova clip to hold the print then just hold that clip to transfer through the system.

Now when i think about agitation there might be smoking gun. These prints are pano's and they were processed short side down, so sideways. The tray developer in me likes to agitate the print in all chems but with the slot processors you get stuck into lifting it up and down. You can shift it side to side but the prints can get stuck on the front glass and get marked.

So when i lift the print up the dev falls down the print in straight lines, like a water running down a wall.

I'm beginning to suspect this might be the culprit but that really means Nova slot processors are a design flaw and i have never heard that before.

What can the test be ? Print one without up/down.side/side agitation and another just static in the dev ? If leaving a print static in dev does indeed solve this issue (no run marks) then i'll go back to trays as i just feel the need to coat the print and keep it moving.

That might be getting ahead of myself a little but these streaks are now starting to look like run marks of dev. I still don't think it should happen. I don't half give the prints a good wiggle about.

Mike, the pink is Selenium. I just thought i'd see on a duff print how long is too long in the bath. Probably not a good print to show actually but it had the worst streaking from the original process.

So not too sure what people think or if anyone has had run marks through agitation using Nova slot processing units ?

Cheers,

Simon
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Old 8th August 2022, 08:57 AM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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Hi Simon, many of us use slot processors on this forum, myself included and almost exclusively for fibre base papers but I've never experienced streaking.
Naturally, the slots need to be cleaned now and again and all chems need to be well-mixed before being poured into the slots.
The developer especially needs to be topped up regularly when processing fb and chems need to be managed ,replenished and/or replaced.

Just out of curiosity, when you agitate the prints do you lift them above/out of the top of the chemicals?

In my case, all agitation takes place with the print fully and completely submerged in the chemicals at all times. Agitation doesn't need to be much and I do a range of motions with circular l/r being the most common direction, especially as prints reach the maximum size of the slots.
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Old 8th August 2022, 09:36 AM
ssharp ssharp is offline
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Hi Marty,

I just got off the phone with Imaging Warehouse and they said to:

1) Agitate in a circular motion every 10-15 seconds
2) Lift the print half way out of the chems every 30 seconds
3) When moving to the next slot agitate immediately or any streaks will be fixed as is.

Also one or two other things like make sure to use acid stop bath which i don't as i have an alkaline workflow.

To be honest with that amount of agitation i'll go back to trays. Obviously the horizontal orientation and contact with chems cuts out this streaking issue (which Imaging Warehouse said was due to the vertical orientation) and i'd rather move the print with zero chance of it catching on the surface in the slot.

I'd rather agitate the tray, flip the print etc than try to find a couple cm gap in a slot and risk catching the business side of the print.

Back to basics i guess. I can use the slots for toning perhaps.

Simon
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:15 AM
alexmuir alexmuir is online now
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Out of interest, is the slot processor you are using one of the type where the slots sit at an angle? If so, I can imagine that it would be more difficult to agitate the prints, compared to the original vertical arrangement. If I remember correctly, the FB processor also used a large clip which effectively frames the paper. There seemed to be a suggestion that the original two pin clip was unsuitable for FB papers. I have used the original type of clip with a vertical 16x12 Nova, and FB papers up to that size, with no issues. Agitation is back and forward in the slot, and lifting out occasionally. I suspect a lot of people do the same.
Alex.


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