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  #21  
Old 6th October 2017, 04:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Norm, it might be worth an e-mail to Ilford now that it is run by new owners. When Harman took over with a management buy-out in 2005 I got the impression that reviewing its various sets of instructions was low on its list of priorities. I raised such a point, if I recall, on the 2006 tour of Ilford and while Simon Galley was polite about it, I felt my point fell on stony ground. In 2006 only just over a year after the buy-out this was probably understandable.

I note that recently the new owners have reviewed the reciprocity failure characteristics of Ilford films and I get the impression that they may be in the business of being prepared to review the confusing parts of the spec sheets. They have for instance revamped the old Harman website and the Harman Express ordering system

Mike
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  #22  
Old 6th October 2017, 05:58 PM
NJHrs NJHrs is offline
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[QUOTE=GoodOldNorm;116291 I am reading and yawning my way through Way Beyond Monochrome 2 at the moment and I cannot find a reason to argue with the authors who believe that there are no "magic bullets". Perhaps I could make a developer from Tramadol[/QUOTE]

True but don't they also show a comparison which seems to indicate that Perceptol 1+3 provides a for a better balance of sharpness and low grain than ID-11/D76?

Granted that may be with a trade off 1/3rd of a stop in practice.

Its that book which has put this thought in my mind that I ought to try Perceptol.

Its a superb book but a fairly dry read I find.
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  #23  
Old 6th October 2017, 06:23 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJHrs View Post
True but don't they also show a comparison which seems to indicate that Perceptol 1+3 provides a for a better balance of sharpness and low grain than ID-11/D76?

.
I've not read the book,but I have used Perceptol at 1+3 and ID11 at 1+3 with 35mm HP5 and FP4.
I prefer HP5 in ID11 1+3. Sharpness is equal to Perceptol 1+3. Grain is finer in the perceptol but looks slightly mushy. In ID11 it is crisp, and gives a look which I prefer.
I prefer FP4 in Perceptol 1+3. Very fine grain, finer than ID11 1+3, sharpness about equal, I think. Both very sharp.
Actually, I use ID11 at 1+2 after discovering that it gives the same results as the 1+3 dilution. Makes for slightly shorter dev times. The same may aply to dilute perceptol. Barry Thornton used it at 1+2
Times in Perceptol at 1+3 are very long. Ilford quote 21 minutes at 20 degres C. Barry Thornton advised using dilute Perceptol at 24 degrees C. to bring the time down, and this is what I do.

Alan
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  #24  
Old 10th October 2017, 01:59 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Hi Norm,

A little late to the conversation here, but I thought I'd share my experience with Perceptol with you. I use this developer a lot, and it is one of my favourites. I have done dozens of films in it, both 35mm and 120 -- mostly FP4 and HP5, with a few rolls of Acros, TMY and Delta 100.

In looking at my negs, I can clearly see that FP4 in Perceptol at 1+3 looks bland, all greys, when compared to those done at 1+1. The latter dilution really has more snap, a fuller range of tones. Others here have said that they get good results at 1+3 with various films, but that has not been my experience. I would suggest you try both, preferably on the same scene, and decide for yourself which works best. 1+3 is certainly more economical, but if the results aren't up to it, then it isn't worth it. I mix my own from bulk, so it's pretty cheap at 1+1.

I have not tried it at 1+3 with HP5, but at 1+1 this film looks wonderful in Perceptol. Very sharp! Wonderful rich tones. Highly recommended.

If you want really, really sharp, try Acros in Perceptol! It is something special. I think it's the sharpest combo I've ever tried (again at 1+1). This is Fuji's recommended best developer for Acros. It is definitely biased to the mid-tones, and there are subtle gradations of tones which can look wonderful with certain scenes (e.g. landscapes, esp. with water). Highlights are very well controlled - long tonal range. I plan to experiment more with this combo, and am keen to try it with mountain scenes with snow.

Compared to ID-11 / D-76, Perceptol has a softer look, more subtle tones. I use the former for urban ruins stuff and gritty street scenes, but pretty much use Perceptol for almost everything else. It is very good at taming contrast -- e.g. HP5 in full noonday July sun comes out perfect in Perceptol without any need for reduced development.

FYI, I rate all films at box speed in dilute Perceptol. I have never used it undiluted due to the reported loss of sharpness, but I understand that you lose 1 stop of speed when used straight-up.

Hope this helps! And I hope you try it. It's wonderful stuff.

Cheers,
Svend

Last edited by Svend; 10th October 2017 at 02:10 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10th October 2017, 03:48 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Svend, good to know that Acros and Perceptol 1+1 is such a good combo and even better that in your experience box speed is achievable with this film and others even at 1+1.

Mike
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  #26  
Old 10th October 2017, 04:28 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Thanks Mike. I haven't shot many rolls of Acros/Perceptol, but I already know the tonality won't suit all subjects (per my taste, anyway). But I think for the right scenes it could be magic. It can have an ethereal look to it. I can't wait to take a MF camera out to the Rockies in winter and try this combo for some landscapes. And for night scenes I'm sure it could also look excellent...and practical too, considering Acros' almost complete lack of need for reciprocity compensation. Let me know if you try it.

Svend
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  #27  
Old 10th October 2017, 07:18 PM
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GoodOldNorm GoodOldNorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Hi Norm,

I mix my own from bulk, so it's pretty cheap at 1+1.

Do you use the recipie listed by PentaxPete on this site, if so what kind of salt are you using?

films at box speed in dilute Perceptol.

Do you get full box speed with FP4+ and Acros, if so what developing times and temperatures are you using?

Hope this helps! And I hope you try it. It's wonderful stuff.

Cheers,
Svend
Thanks for taking the time to answer, best regards, Norm
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  #28  
Old 10th October 2017, 08:44 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Hi Norm,

Yes, I use Pete's recipe, but without the sodium tripolyphoshate as we have soft water here. As for the salt, I use pickling salt which has no iodine in it.

I recently read a tip that one should add a pinch of sulphite to the water before adding the metol - this apparently prevents premature oxidation of the metol by killing the dissolved oxygen. The remainder of the sulphite is then added after the metol is dissolved.

Here is a teaspoon formula which works for me:

Water 750ml @ 50 deg. C
Metol 2 tsp
Sodium Sulphite anhyd. 4 TB
Sodium Chloride 2 TB (coarse non-iodized pickling salt)
Water to 1 Litre

For this I use cylindrical measuring spoons which give repeatable results. And I do as Delia would, and level off the top of the spoon with the flat edge of a knife . Makes tossing together a batch a matter of mere minutes. I would calibrate your measuring spoons against a good scale if you want to try this method.

Re. developing times at 20 deg. C., 1+1 dilution, I do FP4 @ 125 for 15 min. if full sun; for lower contrast scenes I will give an extra stop but leave the time the same.

For Acros I have only limited experience, but have used 15 min. @ 20 deg., 1+1, rated at 100 -- results were good, but all films were in flat light or fog, and could have used a bit more exposure and/or dev. time. Not sure where I got that time from -- perhaps the Massive Dev. Chart? -- as neither Fuji nor Ilford provide a time for Perceptol at 1+1 for Acros. In any case, more experimenting is needed here in differing lighting conditions, but hopefully this is a good start point for you.

Good luck!

Svend

Last edited by Svend; 10th October 2017 at 08:51 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11th October 2017, 10:26 AM
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GoodOldNorm GoodOldNorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Hi Norm,

Yes, I use Pete's recipe, but without the sodium tripolyphoshate as we have soft water here. As for the salt, I use pickling salt which has no iodine in it.

I recently read a tip that one should add a pinch of sulphite to the water before adding the metol - this apparently prevents premature oxidation of the metol by killing the dissolved oxygen. The remainder of the sulphite is then added after the metol is dissolved.

Here is a teaspoon formula which works for me:

Water 750ml @ 50 deg. C
Metol 2 tsp
Sodium Sulphite anhyd. 4 TB
Sodium Chloride 2 TB (coarse non-iodized pickling salt)
Water to 1 Litre

For this I use cylindrical measuring spoons which give repeatable results. And I do as Delia would, and level off the top of the spoon with the flat edge of a knife . Makes tossing together a batch a matter of mere minutes. I would calibrate your measuring spoons against a good scale if you want to try this method.

Re. developing times at 20 deg. C., 1+1 dilution, I do FP4 @ 125 for 15 min. if full sun; for lower contrast scenes I will give an extra stop but leave the time the same.

For Acros I have only limited experience, but have used 15 min. @ 20 deg., 1+1, rated at 100 -- results were good, but all films were in flat light or fog, and could have used a bit more exposure and/or dev. time. Not sure where I got that time from -- perhaps the Massive Dev. Chart? -- as neither Fuji nor Ilford provide a time for Perceptol at 1+1 for Acros. In any case, more experimenting is needed here in differing lighting conditions, but hopefully this is a good start point for you.

Good luck!

Svend
Thank you for that Svend I will buy some spoon measures and non-iodine salt and give it a go.
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  #30  
Old 11th October 2017, 11:30 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Sounds good Norm! Hope it works for you. One of the reasons I like Perceptol so much is that it gives images a sense of air and light, if you know what I mean. Hard to describe....but it "looks" different from, say, ID-11 or Rodinal. Softer tones, more subtle gradation, esp. with a film like HP5. The sharpness you get when used diluted is a bonus.

I have been experimenting a bit with Rodinal lately, but haven't found it's sweet spot yet and may give it a pass. And some time soon I will try replenished Microphen, which I look forward to. But I will always use Perceptol - wonderful stuff!

Let us know how you get along with it.

Cheers,
Svend
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