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  #1  
Old 26th August 2011, 11:10 AM
peterlg peterlg is offline
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Default Light meters - how use them

it may be too elementary a subject and many would probably smile at it, but I believe I have learned something important.

I've compared three light meters: Pentax Digital Spotmeter, Gossen Digisix, Mamiya 7II inbuilt. When measuring a uniform surface they show exactly the same result - so far so good. The Pentax meters exactly want you want - excellent but a bit bulky. The Mamiya 7II meter is in fact almost a spotmeter - the spot is somewhat to the right and below the midpoint of the viewer window. When knowing its position it can be ok but not at all easy to use. The Digisix is small, handy. Gossen tech specs say it meters a circular field with an angle of 25°.

When metering a subject such as a landscape or other with a variety of tones, the inbuilt Mamiya and the Digisix underexpose by one to two stops. I arrive at this with the help of the Spotmeter when metering the textured shadows and place them on Z3. I don't understand why this is so - it also happens when there is no sky in the subject.

For years I've generally got too thin negatives and I've made a load of tests to establish "my personal film speed" thinking that was the problem. And unfortunately I've made very litlle use of the Pentax over these years!

The conclusion seems be, either a) always use the spotmeter (which is a bit clumsy); or b) systematically add, say, two stops to the exposure as metered with the other meters.

I wonder how you FADU friends approach this issue?

Peter
P.S. I only work with MF and 35mm
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Old 26th August 2011, 12:05 PM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Peter,

With my landscape work I regularly use M7ii, Fuji GS645W, Nikon FM2 and XPAN cameras and mostly meter with a hand-held Sekonic spot meter with the camera in manual mode. I do occasionally use the built-in meters the cameras have but always avoid taking a reading from an area that includes a fair amount of brightness. In such circumstances I would meter from the grass, a similarly mid-toned area, or from a dark / shadow area - depending on exactly what I am looking at.

Because of changing light and sometimes adverse weather conditions as well I often have to work quickly so I need a system that pins the exposure down correctly without too much fiddle. My Sekonic is weather proof, light to carry and quick to use. I usually carry it in my trouser pocked attached to my belt by its cord to avoid it being dropped. So if I want a quick reading to check what the light is doing it is always there and readily available.

Neil.
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Old 26th August 2011, 12:51 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Whatever Camera I am using I almost always use a Hand held meter, 90% ofn the time I have no choice as most of my cameras are over 50 years old and have no meter built in. I use a Weston master V, and have always found to be very accurate, when measuring general landscape/seascape I will make sure it is held slightly downwards to cut out the sky, but if there is a lot of brightness, such as sea 9or other large reflective surface, which would often lead to under exposure, I take a reading off of my hand and use the + mark on the meter dial, which amounts to a stop extra exposure, and I find using this old meter gives me consistently good well exposed negatives,more so than with the Sekonic I have,and I carry it around my neck, under my color,by it's neck strap, which I find offers a degree of protection, and it is in my pocket ready for quick use,
Richard
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Old 26th August 2011, 01:46 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlg View Post
When metering a subject such as a landscape or other with a variety of tones, the inbuilt Mamiya and the Digisix underexpose by one to two stops. I arrive at this with the help of the Spotmeter when metering the textured shadows and place them on Z3. I don't understand why this is so - it also happens when there is no sky in the subject.

I wonder how you FADU friends approach this issue?

Peter
P.S. I only work with MF and 35mm
Peter I may have misunderstood both your thread and the use of meters but if all three read a uniform patch correctly then it is because all three "see" the zone in the same way and assume it to be Z5.

When you take a reflected reading of a scene with a large range of zones in it such as an open landscape the camers meter and handheld reflective meter assume that the scene on average reflects 18% grey so in this situation the meters are not giving underexposed readings

The spot meter will also give the same reading but only if you point it at a Z5 so in open scenes you in fact have to be more clever with it than with an in camera reading.

So in summary if the in-camera reading for open scenes are correct and they sound to be based on the readings from a uniform surface then I'd be wary of taking a reflective reading and automatically over exposing by two stops on the basis that it is underexposing.

I hope this makes sense

Mike
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Old 26th August 2011, 01:50 PM
DaveP DaveP is offline
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The main difference between the averaging meters and the spotmeter might be due to the large organic unit to the rear of the camera/meter.
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Old 26th August 2011, 03:44 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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I think it is very important to be consistent and do the same thing every time when taking an exposure reading. Even when the meter in my OM1 worked I didn't use it, as sometimes it would be pointing at light tones, and sometimes at dark ones. The oft-given advice to angle the camera down is not consistent enough, nor is the advice to take a reading off the grass, as this begs the question; which patch of grass? The grass in shadow? Or the grass in the sun? ( There are generally two stops difference between these)
My method of taking a reading is to hold my left hand in a vertical position, with the palm turned away from the sun, or from the directional light, so it is in shade, and take a reading from it with a hand-held meter. It's as simple as that, and works, because the exposure is linked to the shadows. Whether or not I set my camera to this reading depends on how much shadow detail I want in the picture, so I sometimes close down or open up one stop after assessing this.
I use this method for 35mm, medium format and also 5 x 4 and 5 x 7. I used to use a more complex Zone System method for large format, but find that the above method works just as well and saves me carrying a spot-meter around.

Alan
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Old 26th August 2011, 11:29 PM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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Peter,
In my experience, unless your working with a spot meter, reflected meter readings are a bit of a hit&miss affair.
For that very reason, I invariably take an incident meter reading when using film on rolls.
It's precise and consistent. And for those odd occassions, when subject brightness range is great, something between the incident and reflected readings.

It's all place and fall with film on rolls as you can't process for each frame individually as you can with sheet film.

Why not try the white cone over the meter cell in incident mode for a roll and see how it goes?
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Old 27th August 2011, 12:09 AM
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dsallen dsallen is offline
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The method that has always worked for me is very simple:

I use a Weston and meter the darkest shadow that I want detail in. Then I take this reading and set it to the 'U3' indication on the Weston's dial. The only difficult bit is determining where you want detail. I usually err on the side of full shadow detail and choose later what level of shadow detail I want.

The Mamiya 7's meter is soopopoooo sensitive it is useless unless you treat it as a spot meter. Actually, the use of any meter is, in my experience, is usually only as a confirmation of what you originally thought: most scenes in good light are 1/60 @ f22 using iso400 film rated at 200iso and developed in two-bath developer if you require excellent shadow detail.. If you want more shadow detail open up a stop and when you need more depth of field and the shadow detail is not so unimportant you cant stop down a bit.

With a Weston the rule is 'get in close' and with a spot meter the rule is do lots of tests because flair, etc in the optics of the spot meter can give false readings.

My motto is more shadow information detail at the taking stage will never harm your images but a lack of shadow detail will always . . .
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Old 27th August 2011, 12:20 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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Hi Peter. I know exactly the problem you are describing as I find the same myself. I think the best approach is to decide which meter/method gives you the best negatives and to stick to that. I tend to use a spot meter although I agree it can be a nuisance to carry. If you are generally working outdoors in even light, the incident reading can also give good results. Regards, Alex.
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  #10  
Old 27th August 2011, 05:05 PM
timor timor is offline
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Peter.
I am rather on spotmeter side as I find it the only reliable way to read the light condition of the subject. I think it is important to establish Z5. Once this happened photographer is free to set exposure the way he likes.
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digisix, lightmeter, mamiya7ii, spotmeter
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