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Old 15th January 2015, 08:44 PM
Martyn Martyn is offline
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Default Photography or Art?

As a teacher of photography the tiresome, boring, oft repeated question of whether photography is art or not rears it's ugly head often, especially from the younger, or less experienced student. I always feel the need to tackle this sort of query head-on so there is no confusion later on. My stock answer is usually - photography is photography and art is art. A photograph may become art at some point in history, but most photographs are least interesting, have less currency at the point that they are made. The vast majority of photographs made never achieve any interest or integrity. Only through the passage of time may some, perhaps only a few be considered art. As photographers we should not enter into this debate and we should not ever consider our own work 'art'. We should allow the critics, the gallery owners, the 'art market' or history decide that for us. And I'd hate to say what I think when I see the term 'Fine Art Photography'...
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Old 15th January 2015, 09:00 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Is it art.

Some say modern photography using Digital cameras and manipulated post exposure, then using software such as Photoshop or similar is not 'art'. It is using very clever software created by computer programmers, pretty well the same as an computer age version of 'paint by numbers'.

Some users are very gifted in the use of PS, but the real 'art' comes with the photographer seeing an image in his minds eye and altering his position and if necessary re-framing the image, adjusting the exposure before taking the picture. Then after developing the film, limiting the post exposure manipulation in the dark room to adjusting to get a 'perfect' composition, contrast or exposure correction using a skills developed over a period of time.

Pretty well much as an artist with oil paints would do

Last edited by John King; 15th January 2015 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 15th January 2015, 09:11 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I am not sure what "not achieving integrity" in terms of a photograph means compared to a painting, many of which suffer the same fate of not achieving interest.

Had colour photography been available to say Canaletto for instance or Constable I am not sure that a photo would have failed to impress viewers as much as the painting.

Mike
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Old 15th January 2015, 09:37 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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I think photography can be Art, the same way as sculpture, painting and other art forms. The important factor is the intention of the person making the work. There are lots of artists who work in the medium of photography. Many Art Schools and Colleges have departments of Fine Art Photography. My local Art School is Glasgow. The Department there is headed by Thomas Joshua Cooper, who is a recognised artist working in the medium of photography. The purpose of students attending courses there is to pursue careers in art. The work they produce is for artistic purposes, whether it becomes recognised, or not.
There are, of course, many other reasons to produce photographs, some commercial, and others for pleasure. This type of work is not art, nor was it intended to be. Before photography became such a dominant image-making practice, I'm sure there were people making drawings and paintings for purposes other than art. That is less common now due to the development of photography and printing processes. The distinction again is based on the purpose of the work.
I'm sure opinions vary on this question, but I personally have no difficulty seeing a photograph as a work of art if it was produced as a result of artistic endeavour.

Alex.
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Old 15th January 2015, 09:43 PM
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cliveh cliveh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn View Post
As a teacher of photography the tiresome, boring, oft repeated question of whether photography is art or not rears it's ugly head often, especially from the younger, or less experienced student. I always feel the need to tackle this sort of query head-on so there is no confusion later on. My stock answer is usually - photography is photography and art is art. A photograph may become art at some point in history, but most photographs are least interesting, have less currency at the point that they are made. The vast majority of photographs made never achieve any interest or integrity. Only through the passage of time may some, perhaps only a few be considered art. As photographers we should not enter into this debate and we should not ever consider our own work 'art'. We should allow the critics, the gallery owners, the 'art market' or history decide that for us. And I'd hate to say what I think when I see the term 'Fine Art Photography'...
Also as a teacher of photography for over 20 years, I have never heard any student ask is photography art. Anything in the known universe could be considered art by those who perceive it as such. I think many photographs have a great deal of integrity and as to allowing critics and gallery owners to decide for us, is selling your soul down the river. Perhaps we should all be judged on reality game shows by so called experts.
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Old 15th January 2015, 09:53 PM
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Argentum Argentum is offline
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I largely agree with Martyns opinion BUT for me the point that should always be made when answering the question "Is Photography Art" is that to be able to answer the question you must know exactly what Art is otherwise how can you answer the question. And therein lies the problem because no one is quite sure what art is and if you asked a 1000 people to give a reasoned definition of art you would get a 1000 different opinions.

Personally, for me art is the "chronicle of culture". Its not about creativity but does require some to be able to do it well. Anything else is craft.

So when I look at a piece of work, if it doesn't tell me something lucid about culture, then for me it's craft.

Unfortunately as soon as you attach the word Art to anything you intellectualise it whereas when you attach the word craft to it you demote it to being of lesser intelectual value.

Well I beg to differ because the vast majority of what passes for art is nothing of the sort, its pure craft ( but the "artist" would be mortally offended if you called it craft to their face). Some of it is craft of the highest calibre but that doesn't make it art.
I personally value greatly craft of a high claibre. But I detest greatly "Artists" who call their work "Art" which has bugger all to say about culture.

It's mostly smoke and mirrors when you come right down to it. Real Artists are very thin on the ground.

So there you have it, I have redefined "Art".

Last edited by Argentum; 15th January 2015 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 15th January 2015, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
The work they produce is for artistic purposes
What is an "Artistic Purpose" in your context?
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Old 15th January 2015, 10:06 PM
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"We should not ever consider our own work Art"

"Photography is photography and Art is Art"

Good evening Marty. Just to help me be clear on your position-
Presumably painting can be Art, but is all painting Art?
Is Sculpture Art?
Would music, such as Opera, be considered Art?
Do you believe in 'performance' Art?

Your contention seems to be that most photographs are not important or well executed, therefore photography is not Art.
However, I've been to a few exhibitions and know some painters. It seems to me most paintings are not very good- so surely painting isn't Art either?

Is this http://kaynegallery.com/products/fin...01944X1472.jpg

more 'Arty' than this? http://www.oxonianreview.org/wp/wp-c...-Yosemite1.jpg

Maybe this
http://kempercrabbmusic.com/wp-conte...24-224x300.jpg
is more Art than
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/imag...ssIrishman.jpg

(tough call, Jesus with a dinosaur is pretty deep . . . )


This is a well trodden path. There are photographers who clearly see themselves as artists. There are others who proudly declare themselves 'honest photographers' rather than poncey artists.
What, even, is Art? Communication, self expression, political allegory, emotional catharsis? I wonder why the members of this forum participate. They spend their own money on film and materials, gobbling up their free time shooting and printing. Not for profit, but rather because of some need to do it.
I've never called myself an artist, but I have always though t that the best, most powerful, most emotive Art was always made by people who were compelled to do it. I do think there have ben at least a couple of photographers who fitted that definition.
Anyhow, bring on a discussion.
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Old 15th January 2015, 10:21 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentum View Post
What is an "Artistic Purpose" in your context?

From my perspective, I see Artists as people who pursue a vocation to express their thoughts and feelings through their Artistic medium. What sets them apart is the level of thought that goes into the creative process. The conception of the work is as important as the execution of the piece. The finished work should reflect the thoughts and feelings of the Artist, and the skill and effort required to bring it into being.
Alex.
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Old 15th January 2015, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
From my perspective, I see Artists as people who pursue a vocation to express their thoughts and feelings through their Artistic medium. What sets them apart is the level of thought that goes into the creative process. The conception of the work is as important as the execution of the piece. The finished work should reflect the thoughts and feelings of the Artist, and the skill and effort required to bring it into being.
Alex.
What's the difference between that and a craftsperson ?

Last edited by Argentum; 15th January 2015 at 11:19 PM.
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