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  #11  
Old 29th March 2020, 01:20 PM
soulstar soulstar is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveInElland View Post
Hi Mike, 38C which is the recommended temperature. Not felt experienced enough to vary temperature as yet

Not sure I’d know colour crossover if I saw it (these are literally my first C41 experiments) however all the films have come out as I would expect. I don’t print colour but they all sc@n OK and respond as I’d expect in terms of colour rendition.
i've been very tentative starting developing colour film due to me thinking is harder than b&W. how long does the kit say the chemicals diluted could last for?

I print in colour in a darkroom studio but not a much as b&w. scanning colour for me is harder than colour correcting a print in the darkroom.
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  #12  
Old 29th March 2020, 03:45 PM
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DaveInElland DaveInElland is offline
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Originally Posted by soulstar View Post
i've been very tentative starting developing colour film due to me thinking is harder than b&W. how long does the kit say the chemicals diluted could last for?

I print in colour in a darkroom studio but not a much as b&w. scanning colour for me is harder than colour correcting a print in the darkroom.
Hi Soulstar, the kit states that it is good for 12-16 rolls (although some users claim 20). I can’t find the reference now but recall when I was researching this initially that properly stored it should last at least a couple of months once made up. I made this up on 22/2 and have developed 13 rolls since then with consistent results. The bleach is stored in the original bottle (as recommended) and the Developer and Fix are stored in concertina bottles and all are kept in a box in a cupboard in my cellar.

The shorter timings (between 3 and 4 mins Dev, 45s Bleach and 3 min Fix) compared to B&W make it a slightly more intense experience but I’ve now got a good workflow that works for me and apart from getting everything to temperature it’s no more difficult than B&W in my experience. I developed three rolls of 120 and a roll of 35mm one after the other this afternoon and the hardest part was drying the tank between each roll!

Hope this helps
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  #13  
Old 29th March 2020, 03:55 PM
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DaveInElland DaveInElland is offline
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An update on my original query - chemical loss. For reasons unbeknown to me I chose to use my old System 4 tank today for the four rolls of colour film. I returned each chemical to the measuring cylinder during the process and noted no noticeable loss of liquid.

Before I packed up I decided to get completely up to date with film development and developed a roll of HP5+ I finished yesterday. For speed I used the AG tank rather than wash and dry the Paterson again. It’s my go-to tank and also the one I had developed the first nine rolls of colour film in.

Eureka!

I use the inversion method of agitation and when I took the lid off to discard the Rodinal I noticed a fair bit in the channel around the top of the tank - sure enough when I tipped the contents back into the measuring cylinder a quantity escaped - multiply this by nine and I reckon it accounts for my loss of chemicals.

So to answer my own question I shall use the System 4 tank in future as I find that agitation with the twizzle stick uncomfortable for my arthritic fingers
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  #14  
Old 29th March 2020, 04:05 PM
John King John King is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveInElland View Post
I have a small supply of colour film and there’s nothing to stop me shooting some colour for a change and then home processing - it will be a new experience and I enjoy learning new things.

There seems to be just a few kits to chose from which is probably good news for the newbie colour developer as choice isn’t always a great idea at the start. Has anyone any views on the Bellini C41 kit?

Thanks as always
I have never tried Bellini chemicals at all. I am a bit of a stick in the mud, having found something I like and is reliable, I tend to stick with it. For film developing I have used Tetenal since Agfa went out of business just after 2003/4 They are reliable, easy to mix and have quite a long life if mixed at once and the unused chemicals stored in glass bottles with a screw top.

Bearing in mind the present situation in Italy (and the rest of us)the supply of these chemicals may dry up if it goes on for very much longer.
Personally I would go with Tetenal, they are about the same price.

If you have never developed colour before it is a bit more fussy about temperatures than B&W nut if you have a question get back to us and you will be inundated with advice, some from personal experience and
some from books and publications.
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  #15  
Old 29th March 2020, 04:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks, Dave. My query on temperature is that some kits such as Tetenal, Digibase and possibly Bellini, I think, have a range of temperatures within which they say you can develop satisfactorily by varying times

Every time someone does not use the standard 37.8C on another forum the usual range of people give dire warnings of colour crossover in the negs. Essentially as I understand matters, colour crossover is allegedly the result of the different colour layers in the film not being fully developed. This may not affect anyone who scans negatives for prints as the weapons at a scanner's disposal can correct crossover in a way that under an enlarger with RA4 cannot as I understand what scanners can allegedly do

When I play "devil's advocate" and ask why crossover does not occur every time at other than 37.8 C all I seem to get is that on that occasion the person was lucky

I reply that what counts is how often the incidence of crossover occurs and over what range of temperatures. Clearly if the likelihood of crossover is very low at say 35C and above then that is one thing but if the crossover frequency rises appreciably when the temp drops to say 25 C then that may be something else

I also tend to ask why a manufacturer who relies on sales should give a range of temperatures within which it knows there is likely to be problems. This is a bit like say Ilford recommending a dev time and temp that it knows risks getting good negs It makes no sense to do this if you want to sell your product

I never seem to get proper answers to such questions and there would appear to be no source of information in which there is any tables of temp v colour crossover

So I try to make it my business to ask about the colour temp used and what resulted

In that way I may eventually get a feel for the likelihood of crossover at other than 37.8 C

If you have a Jobo processor then there may be no reason not to use 37.8 C but for a lot of beginners without the right equipment the "magic" 37.8 C might be very difficult and simply put newcomers to colour film off trying which is not what we want

Mike
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  #16  
Old 29th March 2020, 04:54 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Cross over or crossed curves

This occurs when one or more of the three colour layers develop at different speeds to the others. Using development temperatures other than 38C (Or37.8) then you run the risk of mismatched colours in the final print. This will give you massive problems with colour balance and will be almost impossible to balance out. Say, if the red layer is the one that goes astray, correct that and the other two will change as well change may end up chasing your tail. Even this is not always the certain cure, because if you change one colour the other two may well go off on a different and opposite curve, which makes it even worse.

The only way I have seen 'crossed curves' be satisfactorily cured is using a scanner to input the film image into a computer and then by using software like Adobe Photoshop to change each individual colour back into line. Even that can be a challenge! This why the optimum temperature should be adhered to, anything else and there is a risk.

Last edited by John King; 29th March 2020 at 05:00 PM.
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  #17  
Old 29th March 2020, 05:16 PM
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DaveInElland DaveInElland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I have never tried Bellini chemicals at all. I am a bit of a stick in the mud, having found something I like and is reliable, I tend to stick with it. For film developing I have used Tetenal since Agfa went out of business just after 2003/4 They are reliable, easy to mix and have quite a long life if mixed at once and the unused chemicals stored in glass bottles with a screw top.

Bearing in mind the present situation in Italy (and the rest of us)the supply of these chemicals may dry up if it goes on for very much longer.
Personally I would go with Tetenal, they are about the same price.

If you have never developed colour before it is a bit more fussy about temperatures than B&W nut if you have a question get back to us and you will be inundated with advice, some from personal experience and
some from books and publications.
Thanks John, since I originally started the thread I’ve processed over a dozen C41 films using the Bellini kit with very pleasing results. I have capacity for three or four more rolls I think before this first kit is exhausted. I have another kit in reserve so am good for a while yet - probably longer than usual as like a lot of folk I’m now housebound!

Like you I tend to stick to one thing I know works although I take your point regarding longer term sustainability of chemicals so will also research the Tetenal.

Thanks as always!
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  #18  
Old 30th March 2020, 01:36 PM
soulstar soulstar is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveInElland View Post
Hi Soulstar, the kit states that it is good for 12-16 rolls (although some users claim 20). I can’t find the reference now but recall when I was researching this initially that properly stored it should last at least a couple of months once made up. I made this up on 22/2 and have developed 13 rolls since then with consistent results. The bleach is stored in the original bottle (as recommended) and the Developer and Fix are stored in concertina bottles and all are kept in a box in a cupboard in my cellar.

The shorter timings (between 3 and 4 mins Dev, 45s Bleach and 3 min Fix) compared to B&W make it a slightly more intense experience but I’ve now got a good workflow that works for me and apart from getting everything to temperature it’s no more difficult than B&W in my experience. I developed three rolls of 120 and a roll of 35mm one after the other this afternoon and the hardest part was drying the tank between each roll!

Hope this helps
thanks for the info dave. ill definitely look into this when we are able to head out.
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