Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > General discussions > Photography in general

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26th February 2021, 03:57 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,797
Default Charcoal black (Dassonville D1) paper developer

Okay, I've finally got around to mixing up and trying this developer, which is listed in The Darkroom Cookbook and caught my eye, just by it's name.

Interestingly, google could only find a few comments, all of which ask about it but no one else seems to have left feedback after making it and then using it.

Well I made some up and to be honest, I was a little disappointed with the end results. The prints looked quite different to ones made with more modern developers, being quite low in contrast and have a soft look to them. The best I can describe them is to say, they look as if they have been developed in an exhausted developer with maybe a lower contrast filter, with overall tone being a lot lighter. Not my cup of tea at all, but I had to try it.

But, the situation was saveable, as I added some extra bits to make it into a solution of D72, which I really like, and the results are much more to my liking, to my eyes at least.

I've attached a picture of the two prints made from the same negative, printed on Ilford FB matt and then developed in the D1, as well as home mixed D72. I've tried to get the images on screen to match the prints, but believe me the results really are quite extreme.

Apart from D1, is there any other mixes in the book, that people have tried and liked or dis-liked, as I do like mixing up and trying these concoctions.

Terry S
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Charcoal developer compared prints.JPG
Views:	291
Size:	71.6 KB
ID:	4051  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26th February 2021, 04:41 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

Thanks for the post Terry. I had never heard of this one and probably never would have without someone like you willing to give these lesser known developers a try

I need to be honest here and say that based on your two prints I actually prefer the D1. The shadows and what appears to be a woodland and slightly softer sunshine scene have more detail which I imagine was closer to the actual scene on the day

It may simply indicate that my tastes favour softer contrast and more open shadow detail than do yours.

It may not be dissimilar to my reaction to the video of identical scenes shot on HP5+ v Tri-X where in nearly every case I preferred the softer contrast and more open look of the shadows in HP5+ I found only a couple of the shots taken where I rated Tri_X as good and none where I rated it better than HP5+

In the comments and there were many of the video they invariably split on the grounds of whether the person was prepared to sacrifice some contrast for more open shadows

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26th February 2021, 04:53 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,797
Default

Thanks for the post Mike.

Just re-looking at the two images on my screen, I think that the D72 print is bit darker than in real life, although the top one, done in D1, is quite close.

I think we all prefer one type of contrast. You'll never get everyone to agree on this subject for sure, especially when we can't all agree that our monitors all show the same picture in the first place!

Terry S
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26th February 2021, 05:38 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
I think we all prefer one type of contrast. You'll never get everyone to agree on this subject for sure, especially when we can't all agree that our monitors all show the same picture in the first place!

Terry S

Yes the only real solution to this is that "Kirk" ( NB my fellow Scots, nothing to do with religion ) device that instantly transposes us to each other houses/ darkrooms while we examine actual prints for a few moments.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 1st March 2021, 05:01 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,797
Default

Interestingly, I have looked at the prints again, a few days later and to be honest, the softer one has grown on me a little.

They are quite dramatically two different types of prints and I can see why some might like the lower contrast, which in turn doesn't look too bad if I look at it first before holding the two prints side by side.

I think that I will keep an open mind and in the future if I have a really contrasty negative that needs toning down, rather than reach for a lower grade of filter to put below the lens, I'll knock up another small batch of this developer and put a print through that instead.

Terry S
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2nd March 2021, 12:25 PM
photomi7ch's Avatar
photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 2,516
Default

I too like the look of the D1 print. I take it from what you have stated that exposing the paper for longer does not increase the contrast or enrich the black enough.
I will add that I'm a fan of crisp blacks that the other print shows.
__________________
Mitch

http://photomi7ch.blogspot.com/

If you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd March 2021, 01:18 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by photomi7ch View Post
I too like the look of the D1 print. I take it from what you have stated that exposing the paper for longer does not increase the contrast or enrich the black enough.
I will add that I'm a fan of crisp blacks that the other print shows.
I just did the standard test strips and then prints in the two developers, to get them looking as similar in tones as possible, whilst still wet. The prints were given a good three minutes in the developer though, compared to my usual two, to try and get the best black that I could in the shadow areas. I didn't do what you suggested as the extra exposure would change the other tones in the prints and I wanted to process the two prints in as similar way as possible.

It was only when they were washed and then dried, that I noticed such a difference between the two prints.

As stated, everything was printed on Ilford FB Matt, which would subtract a little of the dmax of the prints as well.

So I don't know off hand, if extending the exposure or the developer time would add anything more to the print. But, now that you've asked, I might just make up a small quantity of the developer again and see, out of curiosity, if nothing else. This would have to be when I have some spare time in my darkroom sessions, so a further update might take a while.

It would also be interesting if someone else who makes up their own brews from individual chemicals, had a go by making up a small amount and then telling us what they thought.

Terry S
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd March 2021, 01:34 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is online now
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Midlands/Aegean
Posts: 1,988
Default

Looking at the formula it's main difference is a significantly lower Sodium Carbonate level so a lower pH and slightly softer working.

Dassonville D1 was their published developer formula for Dassonville Co Ltd's Charcoal Black Bromide paper, a paper with a similar surface to the old Kentmere Art.

So the name is perhaps confusing leading one to assume it'll give Charcoal Black tones with other papers.

Dassonville were a New York based company manufacturing more art based photo paperes. apart from Charcoal Black Bromide there were also Charcoal Ember a warm tone chlorobromide, Opaline Parchment on a transluscent base. Dassonville started coating Silver based papers when Platinum became unavailable during WW1, the company continued into the 1950's veing takenover by another small company Anken at some point.

Terry if you don't want to waste that developer just add the same amount of Carbonate again and it'll be a lot better.

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd March 2021, 02:53 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostlabours View Post
Dassonville D1 was their published developer formula for Dassonville Co Ltd's Charcoal Black Bromide paper, a paper with a similar surface to the old Kentmere Art.

So the name is perhaps confusing leading one to assume it'll give Charcoal Black tones with other papers.

Dassonville were a New York based company manufacturing more art based photo paperes. apart from Charcoal Black Bromide there were also Charcoal Ember a warm tone chlorobromide, Opaline Parchment on a transluscent base.

Terry if you don't want to waste that developer just add the same amount of Carbonate again and it'll be a lot better.

Ian
Thanks for all that information Ian, as I hadn't had much luck finding out very much about the developer or the company. And yes, it was the charcoal part of the name of the developer, that got me wondering and so making up a small batch, so it didn't cost me much. But as you suggested, I tweaked the developer solution slightly, making it into D72 print developer, which I have found to be to my liking.

But it's a shame, as with a lot of things for the darkroom, that their well named speciality papers are gone for good, just like Kentmere Art paper, that so many mention regularly on posts like this.

Terry S
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7th March 2021, 09:45 PM
SlawekD SlawekD is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Stevenage
Posts: 21
Default

Hi,

Actually I've been mixing Dassonville developer for a good few years with really good results = good contrast. I often deepened blacks in selenium toner, but it wasn't necessary every time.

In your picture, selenium could do good job for blacks leaving open shadows as you like, I think.

Slawek
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foma Universal Developer and MG paper bertodsera Darkroom 5 25th April 2017 06:41 AM
Ro9 paper developer photomi7ch Monochrome printing techniques 8 5th August 2016 10:00 AM
Life of paper developer Chrisvclick Monochrome printing techniques 14 12th March 2016 04:48 PM
OD-62 paper developer Domingo Chemical formulae 4 12th October 2013 02:24 PM
Metol developer for paper Domingo Chemical formulae 5 3rd October 2012 05:04 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.