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  #21  
Old 4th August 2019, 05:46 AM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Sorry to say, but over the years I have seen digitally taken pictures projected in competitions, complete with the rebates that you do on your darkroom prints, with it all done in PS. It appears that the line between digital and analogue has got thinner still and it is now much harder to tell one from the other, the majority of the time.

Terry S
I have stopped entering 'wet' prints in competition. I encountered a judge who marked down my entry because it had a 'distracting detail that should have been cloned out in Photoshop', even when I included the word 'bromide' in the title. I have even considered letting my membership lapse this autumn.
Most clubs belong to the PAGB, an organisation that 'trains' judges and sets marking criteria. About ten years ago, when I lived in Essex and attended a different club, a member was so incensed by the ultra-conventional marking that she submitted several projected images that she had downloaded from The Guardian, noted for the excellence of its photography. The judge found fault with all of them and awarded low marks. A I recollect, the list of perceived shortcomings included the details that PAGB judges look for - no catchlight in the eyes (of a portrait); failure to observe the compositional 'rule of thirds'; poor lighting and weak placement of the subject in the frame.
I would like to be credited for upholding the tradition of 'wet' photography, not placed at a disadvantage in marking. I asked one judge during teabreak how best to identify 'wet-printed' entries. He answered that I could use any means but should 'not expect special treatment'.
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  #22  
Old 4th August 2019, 11:42 AM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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I have stopped entering 'wet' prints in competition. I encountered a judge who marked down my entry because it had a 'distracting detail that should have been cloned out in Photoshop', even when I included the word 'bromide' in the title.
I have been on both sides of this problem Jo. I have entered darkroom prints, only to be marked down for lack of 'photoshop work'. But I have also been a circuit judge for a number of years, some time ago.

I must put to rest the thought though, that judges are 'taught' to pick up on certain things. I can assure you, at least when I went to my 'C class' induction day (read as beginner, with top judges being A class) I wasn't. They just wanted to see that you had a good sense of photographic knowledge and the right demeanor to stand in front of a room of strangers and give your opinions.

I believe that the comments that you mention in your post are basically picked up at an early stage listening to other judges that have visited their club before they decided to become a judge themselves.

I can assure you though, (to the best of my knowledge), that I have NEVER down marked an image for having a catch light or two in the eyes of a sitter, for I don't mind either, even if some judges will say, 'There is only one sun, so there should only be one catch light'. The same as I have NEVER said that 'This could easily be done in photoshop', or 'Shame that this person's coat isn't red.'

By entering club competitions (of which I rarely do now, because of the same repetative remarks by most judges) one just has to accept that the majority of times, one will get the same remarks on images - although rarely the same score! That is not to say that there aren't some GOOD judges about - there are!!! And as it happens, a couple have visited both of the clubs that I've belonged to over the years, and they aren't necessarily 'A class' judges either. Not to mention names, but I have heard the for-mentioned comments by both 'C' and 'A' class judges, so you'll only get to know which judges are worth listening to by inviting them and 'trying them out' I'm afraid.

Terry S
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  #23  
Old 4th August 2019, 12:40 PM
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Bill Bill is offline
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No-one mentioned that you can't buy square paper.
According to the Ilford catalogue you can. They show a 10” x 10” square paper in RC Glossy but I don’t know of anybody that stocks it I’m afraid. It is listed as “made to order” and is about £72 for 100 sheets. If you really wanted it I am sure a message to Ilford would tell you if there is a minimum order quantity.

Bill
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  #24  
Old 5th August 2019, 12:12 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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According to the Ilford catalogue you can. They show a 10” x 10” square paper in RC Glossy but I don’t know of anybody that stocks it I’m afraid. It is listed as “made to order” and is about £72 for 100 sheets. If you really wanted it I am sure a message to Ilford would tell you if there is a minimum order quantity.

Bill
I've only quickly looked at one of the forums sponsors, AG Photographic, and they do list it, but it is listed as out of stock at the moment. So either it's really popular, or it needs to be ordered in:

https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/mg...-100-113-p.asp

It's a shame that it's not more readily available, as well as in different surfaces, as glossy is my least favourite paper to use (at the moment), with RC satin and FB matt being my current likes and most used.

Terry S
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  #25  
Old 6th August 2019, 11:05 AM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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... the right demeanor to stand in front of a room of strangers and give your opinions.

I believe that the comments that you mention in your post are basically picked up at an early stage listening to other judges that have visited their club before they decided to become a judge themselves.
You are probably correct.

I have been a member of CAGB-affiliated clubs for nearly forty years, on and off, and I have been aware that the style of judging follows a pattern. A club in a neighbouring town takes a stall in a craft fair every year and members noticed that high-marked competition entries displayed got 'nul points' but pets, babies and pretty girls were all winners.[/QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
I can assure you though, (to the best of my knowledge), that I have NEVER down marked an image for having a catch light or two in the eyes of a sitter, for I don't mind either, even if some judges will say, 'There is only one sun, so there should only be one catch light'. The same as I have NEVER said that 'This could easily be done in photoshop', or 'Shame that this person's coat isn't red.'
When we members informally discussed the judging of catchpoints, we observed that judges marked down portraits and wildlife images without catchlights, rather than too many.
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
By entering club competitions (of which I rarely do now, because of the same repetative remarks by most judges) one just has to accept that the majority of times, one will get the same remarks on images - although rarely the same score! That is not to say that there aren't some GOOD judges about - there are!!! And as it happens, a couple have visited both of the clubs that I've belonged to over the years, and they aren't necessarily 'A class' judges either. Not to mention names, but I have heard the for-mentioned comments by both 'C' and 'A' class judges, so you'll only get to know which judges are worth listening to by inviting them and 'trying them out' I'm afraid.
Terry S
Thanks for taking me seriously. As you say, there are good judges out there, who provide valuable councel to aspiring beginners. But you didn't pick up on my story about Jane who downloaded selected pictures from The Guardian, which got low marks in competition. Value in images is a matter of opinion. I notice that current images regarded as excellent by Guardian picture editors have striking subject matter that grabs the attention of the viewer.
A small group of us giggled nervously when Jane (I think that was her name) told us what she had done, which might have compromised her membership. But she made her point.
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  #26  
Old 6th August 2019, 11:41 AM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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But you didn't pick up on my story about Jane who downloaded selected pictures from The Guardian, which got low marks in competition. Value in images is a matter of opinion.
Sorry that I missed that point, as it is a good one. It is also a point that I've heard a few times over the years, by people telling me and in print. The way I've heard it told, is that lesser known, but still good, pictures by 'famous' photographers' were entered into a club competition, and like your story, they got low marks. But very much like your last comment, yes the 'value in images (is very much) a matter of opinion' and as I also said, rarely do two judges give the same set of points to a particular image entered in competitions.

Terry S
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