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  #1  
Old 17th July 2019, 03:06 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Default Looking for 645 SLR advice

Hello All!

I am pondering the purchase of an older 645 SLR to replace my Mamiya C330. I find this camera to have great optics and image quality, but the ergonomics just don't click with me (pardon the pun), it's large and heavy, and I would prefer something with a prism finder and built-in meter for more spontaneous, quicker shooting.

So the cameras I'm considering are the Pentax 645 (first model), Mamiya m645 (first model and variants like 1000S), and the Bronica ETR/ETRS.

I would like to hear from anyone with personal experience with any of these cameras who can share some pros and cons. I have studied their systems extensively, so know quite well what they can and can't do (e.g. film inserts vs. backs, finders, leaf vs. focal plane shutters, etc.), and also know that image quality will be excellent with any of them.

But what I am particularly interested in hearing about is reliability and ergonomics. Are you aware of any common problems? How well do they work for hand-held shooting? Any annoying quirks?

Many thanks in advance...
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Old 17th July 2019, 03:52 PM
big paul big paul is offline
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I would defiantly consider the mamiya 645 pro ,its a bit more modern than the others ,I have AF mamiya,s and phase one film cameras ,that I could advice you or help you with if you ever wanted to buy newer mamiya AF cameras . I have used and owned a bronica etrsi ,and have used a mamiya 645 pro, out of them two i found that mamiya was the best ,.(in my opinion) but I would buy the latest model you could afford or find ,and with the winder fitted you just have to press the shutter ,no winding on by hand so you can keep the camera to your eye ,and never miss anything ,also comes with different finders ,loads of great lenses on the market ,and mamiya lenses are very good

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Old 17th July 2019, 05:15 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Thanks Paul. Some good insight. I have considered the newer Mamiyas, but was a bit reluctant about the plastic body. Do you find it reasonably durable and sturdy? Recently prices are getting pretty high for those around here - basically into Hasselblad territory for a Pro or Pro TL, which seems ridiculous. I should have bought one a few years ago when they were much cheaper.

As for AF, that's not something I am interested in. I much prefer manual focus.

I could keep my eyes open for a good deal on a Pro here. I believe the Super model was not as well built, if I correctly recall comments elsewhere on the web.
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:16 PM
big paul big paul is offline
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hi Svend all the AF mamiya bodies ,and film backs are metal alloy ,I don't know about the mamiya pro or pro TL bodies but they are strong . as the Hasselblad h series came out and the price of there AF lenses were and still are bloody expensive on the second hand market ,this has pushed mamiya AF lenses up in price as well ,but still cheaper than Hasselblad lenses . the later mamiya AF ones have shutters in the lens but they only work on digital bodies ..
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:28 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big paul View Post
hi Svend all the AF mamiya bodies ,and film backs are metal alloy ,I don't know about the mamiya pro or pro TL bodies but they are strong . as the Hasselblad h series came out and the price of there AF lenses were and still are bloody expensive on the second hand market ,this has pushed mamiya AF lenses up in price as well ,but still cheaper than Hasselblad lenses . the later mamiya AF ones have shutters in the lens but they only work on digital bodies ..
That's good to know Paul. I will have to take a closer look at those then. Changeable backs would be nice to have, but not essential. Mamiya lenses are certainly very good.

Thanks again.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:08 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Svend, my P645N doesn't quite meet you requirements as this is the AF version that superseded the P645 you mention but while a fairly heavy camera it is remarkably compact and solid camera and can easily be used handheld. With a 75mm lens it will just about fit into a side holster that can be carried on your trousers belt. With an Optech wide strap I carried this around my neck for a couple of hours at a wedding without undue strain

People have a range of opinions on Ken Rockwell but in my opinion he does a good review of the P645N. It is worth reading it on his site

I should add that while this camera will work with AF lenses it is also fine with A (manual focus) lenses and has the ability to signal when the manual focus lens in on focus by means of a green hexagonal focus indicator that lights up so that even if the user's eyes are no longer the fine focusers they once were the lens does the job for you and indicates the "in focus" setting

Mike

Last edited by Mike O'Pray; 17th July 2019 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:20 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Hi Mike -- good to hear that the Pentax is so easy to handle. It does seem designed for handheld use, which is one attribute that I really like about it. Have you found yours to be reliable? How long have you had it?Any problems?

I have read that the mirror in these is so well damped that MLU is not even needed. Nice!
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:30 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default 645 Choice

I have used both the Mamiya 645 and the ETRS models and whilst there is nothing to choose between them I much preferred the 645 -1000. It gave the feeling of better build than either the 645 Super and the ETRS/i

The downsides are the 1000s does not have interchangeable backs and is older so spares may be more of a problem should anything happen to make it go wrong. The 1000s also uses a simple cable release to remotely fire the shutter where as the others need an electronic one or an adaptor to use the cable release but are probably as rare as hens's teeth.

The 1000s has an easier to set 'mirror up' facility than the ETRSi The older ETRS doesn't have a 'mirror up'

Optically wise there is little to choose between them but the Mamiya has a wider angle than either the Pentax or TRS (35mm = 24mm in 35mm)

I have no experience of the Pentax 645 but there should be little difference between that and the others.

Compared to the price when they were new the 645 lenses are now very very reasonable.
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:38 PM
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PaulDiz PaulDiz is offline
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Hi Svend. I would champion the Bronica ETRSI. I have had since around 2000. It was originally bought to do Weddings, but has been a flexible workhorse since. I found it a bit slow to work a wedding with a tripod, so a Grip E was attached and used hand held. It replaces the side crank with a thumb lever on top of the grip. Making life so much easier. A prism replaced the waist level view finder as well. There is a metered version (I believe the 2nd incarnation is the better) but have not used one. A Metz45 flash and SCA adapter gave enough radiation output to to light up most things TTL. Though initially a PC sync and the flash in a matched Aperture worked brilliantly. Lens' are superb, but found the later PS range better. The earlier MC range I found to suffer from flare if pointed anywhere near the direction of the sun. Later a rotating prism was added for macro and ceiling (church, abbey, cathedrals etc) photos. Put the grip and prism on, It becomes a fairly substantial chunk. But I believe this helps with hand held. If it is stripped back to WLF and side crank, it fits nicely in the daysack for a day up the hill. Apart from 1 lens being cleaned of fungus, the system has never let me down.
Cheers
Diz
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Old 17th July 2019, 10:53 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svend View Post
Hi Mike -- good to hear that the Pentax is so easy to handle. It does seem designed for handheld use, which is one attribute that I really like about it. Have you found yours to be reliable? How long have you had it?Any problems?

I have read that the mirror in these is so well damped that MLU is not even needed. Nice!
Yes it has been faultless. I have had it for about 8.5 years now. I got it from a FADUer for a very reasonable price and then bought an extra back for it. If the insert you have is say B&W then you can load another back with say colour and if you need to change you can do a mid-roll rewind then remove the insert and switch to the colour insert.

OK you lose however many frames on the rewound roll you haven't taken. So not as convenient as separate backs. I did wonder at the beginning about how much an inconvenience not having separate backs would be but in my reality I can think of few occasions when I suddenly saw a scene that needed colour film if I had B&W loaded or vice versa.

With a changing bag you could remove the insert in darkness and hand rewind the roll back to the beginning, remove the roll and then load the roll again as if it was new and wind forward to whatever frame you were on when you decided to change inserts but this is a real "bind" in the field. So yes switching back and forth between say colour and B&W is not a quick operation compared to those cameras with separate backs.

Mike
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