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  #11  
Old 2nd December 2020, 10:00 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by adrianlambert View Post
Ah ok. I致e found that Ilford state 250ml per film. 4 per pack!! But this is encouraging. Thanks.
Adrian, the whole question of the minimum amount of Perceptol per film started a long thread on Photrio . The 4 per pack is based on something that Ilford apparently states but how you read Ilford's statement is open to interpretation

Like you I could not bring myself to believe that Ilford meant that 250ml of stock was the minimum quantity required for perfectly OK development so that a 1L pack of Perceptol only does 4 films. If this were the correct reading of Ilford's statement then this means that if you want to do Perceptol at 1+3 for which Ilford gives times then nothing short of a 1L tank is good enough for a film.

I could not quite believe that if 1+3 was your favourite dilution you had to find a 1 litre tank so I wrote to Ilford and asked the question of what the minimum was, mentioning that in my case I developed 35mm film in a Jobo tank that held 250 ml so 1+3 was only 62ml of stock.

I got back a reply that said that 62ml was perhaps on the margin but 70 mls was OK. Paterson tanks for instance require 300ml so 70ml of stock gives 1+3 in 300ml tank

So 100ml of stock gives a real safety margin in my opinion and based on my negs with 62ml.

I reported my reply from Ilford on Photrio but those there who hold entrenched positions that 250ml is the minimum because that is what Ilford says in its Perceptol tech specs, were having none of it. To the extent that they felt I had not explained properly what I had meant to Ilford at worse or Ilford had completely misunderstood what I had written at best

When I said that my 62mls had produced satisfactory negs, the reply(ies) (it was mainly one person in the other corner) was/were that my "satisfactory" was clearly below what the best negs with 250ml would have looked like


The point of my story being that on some forums you get a range of replies and if some don't stack up with what seems right then questions need asking

You must decide what the minimum quantity is for you but my evidence suggests that while I may have been at the margin with 62mls of stock, 100ml is certainly fine

Mike
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  #12  
Old 2nd December 2020, 10:28 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Adrian,

Here is a long thread on this topic from some time ago. Lots of good info and discussion.

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ad.php?t=10978

As you will read in this thread, I get the best results from Perceptol diluted 1+1, which means 150ml per roll of 135 film, and 250ml per 120 roll (Paterson tank). I used to do it at 1+3 but found the contrast was way too low (underdeveloped, as Ian noted). The negs were all greys, no guts. Using 1+1 and overexposing slightly gives great punchy negs, highlights still well controlled, good shadow detail, fine grain, excellent sharpness. I have used this in combination with PanF, a contrasty film, in mid-winter snow scenes, full sun, with great results.

Ilford's recommendation of 250ml per film seems to be if Perceptol is used as stock solution, undiluted, and reused for subsequent films. If you are using it this way then I would follow their recommendation. Otherwise, if diluted and one-shot, then 1+1 is my preference and you will get more than 4 rolls per packet.

Hope this helps.


PS -- Perceptol at 1+1 with HP5 is wonderful! One of my favourite combinations. Rate the film at 320 or a bit lower even, and develop normally.
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  #13  
Old 3rd December 2020, 12:23 AM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Adrian, the whole question of the minimum amount of Perceptol per film started a long thread on Photrio . The 4 per pack is based on something that Ilford apparently states but how you read Ilford's statement is open to interpretation

Like you I could not bring myself to believe that Ilford meant that 250ml of stock was the minimum quantity required for perfectly OK development so that a 1L pack of Perceptol only does 4 films. If this were the correct reading of Ilford's statement then this means that if you want to do Perceptol at 1+3 for which Ilford gives times then nothing short of a 1L tank is good enough for a film.

I could not quite believe that if 1+3 was your favourite dilution you had to find a 1 litre tank so I wrote to Ilford and asked the question of what the minimum was, mentioning that in my case I developed 35mm film in a Jobo tank that held 250 ml so 1+3 was only 62ml of stock.

I got back a reply that said that 62ml was perhaps on the margin but 70 mls was OK. Paterson tanks for instance require 300ml so 70ml of stock gives 1+3 in 300ml tank

So 100ml of stock gives a real safety margin in my opinion and based on my negs with 62ml.

I reported my reply from Ilford on Photrio but those there who hold entrenched positions that 250ml is the minimum because that is what Ilford says in its Perceptol tech specs, were having none of it. To the extent that they felt I had not explained properly what I had meant to Ilford at worse or Ilford had completely misunderstood what I had written at best

When I said that my 62mls had produced satisfactory negs, the reply(ies) (it was mainly one person in the other corner) was/were that my "satisfactory" was clearly below what the best negs with 250ml would have looked like


The point of my story being that on some forums you get a range of replies and if some don't stack up with what seems right then questions need asking

You must decide what the minimum quantity is for you but my evidence suggests that while I may have been at the margin with 62mls of stock, 100ml is certainly fine

Mike

Thanks Mike. I知 certainly happy to give it a shot based on this and the other reports.


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  #14  
Old 3rd December 2020, 12:28 AM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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Originally Posted by Svend View Post
Adrian,

Here is a long thread on this topic from some time ago. Lots of good info and discussion.

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ad.php?t=10978

As you will read in this thread, I get the best results from Perceptol diluted 1+1, which means 150ml per roll of 135 film, and 250ml per 120 roll (Paterson tank). I used to do it at 1+3 but found the contrast was way too low (underdeveloped, as Ian noted). The negs were all greys, no guts. Using 1+1 and overexposing slightly gives great punchy negs, highlights still well controlled, good shadow detail, fine grain, excellent sharpness. I have used this in combination with PanF, a contrasty film, in mid-winter snow scenes, full sun, with great results.

Ilford's recommendation of 250ml per film seems to be if Perceptol is used as stock solution, undiluted, and reused for subsequent films. If you are using it this way then I would follow their recommendation. Otherwise, if diluted and one-shot, then 1+1 is my preference and you will get more than 4 rolls per packet.

Hope this helps.


PS -- Perceptol at 1+1 with HP5 is wonderful! One of my favourite combinations. Rate the film at 320 or a bit lower even, and develop normally.

Thanks. Yes, the reports of it working well with hp5 and some great examples on the ilfordphoto website were what were steering me. My initial plan was based on using 1+2 as a start point then going to 1+1 or 1+3 as conditions required.


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  #15  
Old 3rd December 2020, 09:29 AM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Originally Posted by adrianlambert View Post
100ml per roll?

From the Ilford power film data sheet:


Looks like 250ml per film.


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Hi Adrian, I could be wrong but I think the Ilford data here is referring to using the same stock solution, undiluted, to develop more than one film. It gives the % increase in developing time for up to 10 films, and says don't develop more than 10 in 1 litre of stock.

I am looking at the information on the inside of a packet of Perceptol, which you have photographed. On the right hand side and not included in your photo it gives information for using 300ml of solution. And for a 1+3 dilution it states 75ml of Stock Solution and 225 ml of water.

Alan
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  #16  
Old 3rd December 2020, 12:33 PM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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Thanks Alan. I wasn稚 sure how to interpret that.


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  #17  
Old 3rd December 2020, 01:46 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Originally Posted by adrianlambert View Post
Thanks. Yes, the reports of it working well with hp5 and some great examples on the ilfordphoto website were what were steering me. My initial plan was based on using 1+2 as a start point then going to 1+1 or 1+3 as conditions required.


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Sounds like a plan Adrian . I have read somewhere that 1+2 gives good results as well, but I have never used it so can't really comment. All I can say is 1+3 was not to my taste so I haven't gone there in many years.

Let us know how things go for you. Perceptol is one of my most-used developers. Great stuff!
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  #18  
Old 4th December 2020, 11:16 PM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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The perceptol was great at 1+2 at least looking at the negs. I need to calibrate my new densitometer and obviously make a print but I知 happy that I can work with it. Only a slight drop in speed although I was aiming for 320 in the dev but shot for 400 not expecting to be developing it in perceptol.


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  #19  
Old 5th December 2020, 11:29 AM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Originally Posted by adrianlambert View Post
I知 testing processing hp5 tmax400 and Fomapan 200 4x5 sheets in a jobo rotary with a drum capacity of 270ml with perceptol. Do you know if 100ml stock + 200ml of water would provide sufficient developer chemistry to fully develop this quantity of film?


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Hi Adrian

Are you using a Jobo 3010 tank ?

If so, I use 250ml of ID11 at 1+1 (500ml total) and dump it at the end.

I value consistency over economy.

Running out of active developer prevents the films highlights from fully developing while increasing base fog.

Martin
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  #20  
Old 5th December 2020, 01:36 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Originally Posted by adrianlambert View Post
The perceptol was great at 1+2 at least looking at the negs. I need to calibrate my new densitometer and obviously make a print but I知 happy that I can work with it. Only a slight drop in speed although I was aiming for 320 in the dev but shot for 400 not expecting to be developing it in perceptol.


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Great to hear that Adrian! Sounds like with a bit more tweaking you're onto a good combo there.
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