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  #11  
Old 25th July 2022, 08:41 AM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
For stand development it is useful to know how much concentrate a particular length of film requires. I know the figure from Rodinal, from a discussion somewhere and some time ago in FADU; but the data sheet for my go-to, Ilfotec HC has no mention.
IIRC - For HC110 the minimum amount of stock solution (syrup) required for each film is 6ml. I read this somewhere many years ago and it's what I've always kept to with nerarly 40 years of use now. This is not a problem with a normal film dev routines but with semi-stand / stand routines, where long dev times are used, this can be. But of course HC110 was not created with s semi-stand / stand dev routines in mind.

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Old 25th July 2022, 09:18 AM
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It has just come back to me re the ref to the minimum amount of HC110 required for each film. I am sure I read it in 'The Film Developing Cookbook' - by: Stephen G. Anchel - Bill Troop.

When I have the time I'll check this out but I'm sure that's where it came from. I suspect it would have been a Kodak recommendation and it came from there.

Neil.
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Old 25th July 2022, 12:06 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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There was a website called
Covington Innovations
or something similar, which had a lot of useful information about HC110. I think the 6ml figure may have been mentioned there. The site is about Astrophotography. I have the book by Mr Covington. It is very interesting, not just in connection with HC110.
Alex


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  #14  
Old 25th July 2022, 12:28 PM
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The best place to start with any film / dev combination is the film / developer maker's recommendation and if indeed needed modify from there.

Neil.
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  #15  
Old 29th July 2022, 02:06 AM
MattKing MattKing is offline
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The 6 ml of HC-110 concentrate per 135-36/120 roll/8x10 sheet figure comes from the capacity without replenishment recommendations in the HC-110 datasheet J-24, which specifies
5 rolls/sheets per liter of dilution B in a tank, not a tray.
One litre of dilution B (1 + 31) includes 31.25 ml of concentrate.
31.25/5 = 6.25 ml of concentrate per roll, which most will round off to 6 ml per roll.

In essence, one needs to look to the capacity recommendations.
Different developers, and different dilutions of developers will have different developing capacities - the ability to fully develop rolls of film without running out of "oomph". When one exceeds the development capacity, one can end up with incompletely developed highlights due to developer exhaustion in that part of the negative.
Capacity recommendations are based on both knowledge and assumptions - knowledge about the chemical makeup of the developer, and assumptions about the nature of negatives. If one is developing a number of very dense negatives of very light scenes, the negatives require more development capacity from the developer than if one is developing a number of thin negatives of mostly dark scenes. Kodak's capacity recommendations are oriented toward commercial labs, include assumptions about how negatives will average out over a range of films, and include a robust safety margin, because neither labs nor their customers want a bunch of results with weak highlight densities due to developer exhaustion.
X-Tol is another developer, and Kodak has even clearer recommendations in its datasheet J-109:
"The volume of diluted XTOL Developer needed to cover
the film will depend on the size of your tank or tray or the
design of your rotary-tube processor. However, the
minimum amount of diluted developer needed to cover the
film may not contain enough active ingredients to develop
the film fully in the recommended time. We recommend
always starting with at least 100 mL (3.5 fluidounces) of
full-strength developer to prepare the diluted solution for
each 135-36 or 120 roll (or the equivalent of 80 square
inches [516 square centimetres]). For example, when
processing 4 rolls of film with developer diluted 1:1, use at
least 800 mL even if the processing equipment will allow
the use of less solution.
"
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  #16  
Old 29th July 2022, 08:41 AM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
The 6 ml of HC-110 concentrate per 135-36/120 roll/8x10 sheet figure comes from the capacity without replenishment recommendations in the HC-110 datasheet J-24, which specifies
5 rolls/sheets per liter of dilution B in a tank, not a tray.
One litre of dilution B (1 + 31) includes 31.25 ml of concentrate.
31.25/5 = 6.25 ml of concentrate per roll, which most will round off to 6 ml per roll.

In essence, one needs to look to the capacity recommendations.
Different developers, and different dilutions of developers will have different developing capacities - the ability to fully develop rolls of film without running out of "oomph". When one exceeds the development capacity, one can end up with incompletely developed highlights due to developer exhaustion in that part of the negative.
Capacity recommendations are based on both knowledge and assumptions - knowledge about the chemical makeup of the developer, and assumptions about the nature of negatives. If one is developing a number of very dense negatives of very light scenes, the negatives require more development capacity from the developer than if one is developing a number of thin negatives of mostly dark scenes. Kodak's capacity recommendations are oriented toward commercial labs, include assumptions about how negatives will average out over a range of films, and include a robust safety margin, because neither labs nor their customers want a bunch of results with weak highlight densities due to developer exhaustion.
X-Tol is another developer, and Kodak has even clearer recommendations in its datasheet J-109:
"The volume of diluted XTOL Developer needed to cover
the film will depend on the size of your tank or tray or the
design of your rotary-tube processor. However, the
minimum amount of diluted developer needed to cover the
film may not contain enough active ingredients to develop
the film fully in the recommended time. We recommend
always starting with at least 100 mL (3.5 fluidounces) of
full-strength developer to prepare the diluted solution for
each 135-36 or 120 roll (or the equivalent of 80 square
inches [516 square centimetres]). For example, when
processing 4 rolls of film with developer diluted 1:1, use at
least 800 mL even if the processing equipment will allow
the use of less solution.
"

With HC110 I've found using it as a one-shot dev works best for me and provides good negs guanteed every time - 35mm / 120 developed in tanks and 5x4 in trays (6ml concentrate per film). The various dillutions can feel strange at first but after a while they become normal. There is the HC110 Made Easy Method which uses 1:50 times. I have posted times for some films already on FADU for 1:50 development.


Neil.
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Last edited by B&W Neil; 29th July 2022 at 09:00 AM.
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