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  #21  
Old 18th March 2017, 01:42 PM
silverphoton silverphoton is offline
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Svend, thanks for the link to the lens test data. I had seen the large format lens page but not the MF Page. I see what you mean with regards to lens performance of the Xenotars. If large format lenses had LPM results like that you would cut yourself on the prints.
Sharpness is the reason I have three 180 mm lenses. My first is an old Symmar, the glass is great but the shutter keeps malfunctioning. I had it Cla'd once but the difference in price between a CLA and a used lens is negligible. I bought a Symmar-s thinking a later lens would be an improvement but alas it's not as Sharp! Finally I bought Fujinon-w for the shutter if the glass wasn't good, but it seems fine and almost covers the 8x10 format at F 22 and maybe it will at F 45.
I have thought about getting a Mamiya C 220, as a friend had one at college and it seemed to work ok. I'm going to submit this before I lose it.
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  #22  
Old 18th March 2017, 01:50 PM
silverphoton silverphoton is offline
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I have had two Tlr's a Russian Lubital, which was just ugly all round and a Yashicamat 124g that had terrible lens performance. The local photographer/ camera store owner gave me a great price as a trade against a spot meter as he wanted it for his collection.�� It will be interesting to see the comparison between your two Rollieflexes, when are you going to start?
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  #23  
Old 18th March 2017, 02:42 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Hmmm...interesting comments on sheet film handling vs. roll. I do admit that loading 120 film onto a Patterson reel can be aggravating and I've been known to clear the room when a roll jams in the changing bag and the stream of cussing starts. But there are some tricks to make it easy. Using films with a thicker base is a start -- Kodak TMY2 for instance, is a breeze to load. In any case, it's good to hear that sheet film handling is perhaps much easier than I had thought. That clears one mental obstacle out of the way .

Re. your Nikons, as I'm sure you know, it's the lens that takes the picture, and most Nikkor optics are top notch. The body is just the film and lens holder, so who cares if it ain't a pro model? I have a couple of 11x14s on the wall taken by the Sonnar in my little pocket Rollei, shot on basic FP4 in Perceptol and TMY in D76 (so nothing exotic), and you'd be hard pressed to tell they weren't from a medium format camera unless you stood with your nose to the print. Good optics are essential to get results in 35mm. The leaf shutter in that cameras helps a lot too .

If you're looking at MF systems, there are a lot of good used kits on the market now. One of the big issues is service though. Try getting a Bronica fixed anywhere in the world, and that's a hassle you don't want. I have a Mamiya C330 system, recently acquired, and I love it. It has it's drawbacks and is far from perfect, but the pluses outweigh the minuses in my mind. I'm not sure I'm sold on the lenses yet -- they're very sharp, but are lacking some crispness and snap. Admittedly I have been spoiled in this regard, as I also have two Rolleiflex TLRs -- a 3.5F Planar and a 3.5C Xenotar, two of the sharpest lenses ever made, or so I've read. They are unbelievably sharp, and their 1960s glass gives the prints a wonderful tonality to boot. Final verdict on the Mamiya lenses decided once I start printing in the darkroom. The other TLR I have is a Minolta Autocord (you can tell I like TLRs, eh? No great huge mirror whacking around) which I haven't used much as I just bought it recently. But the first rolls were wonderful. The images have creamy tonality that is unique -- they really glow. And the lens is sharp too. Killer combo. It's a keeper!

Have fun in the hunt, and let me know if you want to bat some ideas around re. MF cameras and their pros and cons.

Cheers,
Svend
Not trying to hijack this thread, butthere is a very easy way to stop any film sticking in the Patterson reels, just take an old fasioned pencil and run the point around the groves before loading, and the film, 35mm or 120, will slip in like a hot knife though butter, I have been doing this for most of my photographic life, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the numbers of film that has stuck, and if it does stick the a sharp tap on a hard surface will free it 99% of the time,
also, if you are using a changing bag to load film then try and make sure your hands, which maybe get a bit sweaty, are as dry as possible as that does not help film loading, when you get your darkroom up and running then load film in there, using the pencil trick and your problems will dissapear
Richard
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  #24  
Old 18th March 2017, 02:48 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Originally Posted by silverphoton View Post
I have had two Tlr's a Russian Lubital, which was just ugly all round and a Yashicamat 124g that had terrible lens performance. The local photographer/ camera store owner gave me a great price as a trade against a spot meter as he wanted it for his collection.�� It will be interesting to see the comparison between your two Rollieflexes, when are you going to start?
I love Tlr.s, I have 3, a rolleiflex automat, a rolleicord, but the best one for me, with by far the better lens than the Tessar, is my Microcord 1 1/2 with the Ross xpress lens, a camera I would reccomend to anyone, as long as you get the 1 1/2 or 2, where MPP used the german prontor shutter and the better camera design
Richard
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  #25  
Old 19th March 2017, 12:18 PM
silverphoton silverphoton is offline
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Quite e collection of Tlr's there Richard.
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  #26  
Old 19th March 2017, 02:21 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quite e collection of Tlr's there Richard.
The biggest collection of cameras I have are old folders, both 35mm and MF, I have 16 or thereabouts, all working and they all get used, I prefer to use these older cameras to ''modern''cameras, just something about them, and the results speak for themselves, plus I have a good collection of solid boby 35mm cameras, Voightlander's,3 Ambi Silletes with the complete set of lenses, that i 35,50,90 and 130mm, and a couple of Voightlander Vitessa'a, again with the complete set of lenses, 35 50 100 and 135, 3 werras, Leica IIIc factory converted to the IIIf, ( Leitz used to do this in the 40.s and 50's with the screw mount cameras, they would convert an older body to the latest model, also a Canon model 7 rangefinder, and again they afre all used over the course of the year
Richard
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  #27  
Old 19th March 2017, 11:22 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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I have thought about getting a Mamiya C 220, as a friend had one at college and it seemed to work ok.
Don't get me wrong, the C-series cameras are excellent. They have a lot going for them, and very few drawbacks. I really like using mine for landscapes and cityscapes. Extremely versatile with swappable lenses, and the close focus with it's bellows is brilliant for nature/botanical stuff. They are simple, rugged cameras. Very well made. But as I said, I am still undecided about the lenses. Their resolution is very good, but they just seem to lack the bite and crispness of the German optics. Microcontrast, I think they call it. I am trying to overcome that by experimenting with acutance developers such as dilute Perceptol and Rodinal, paired with traditional grain films like Pan-F, FP4, HP5 -- something to give me a bit more edge bite. Past films in this camera have been mostly TMY-2 in D-76 @ 1+1, which have turned out extremely smooth tonally, but lacking some fine detail. The best yet has been Pan-F in Rodinal 1+50 with reduced agitation - very sharp, lots of fine detail, and beautiful tonally. That tells me the lenses seem to be capable of resolving well, but I just need to choose the film/developer that gives me the look that I want. More info in a few months when I get more experience with the C-330.

Quote:
It will be interesting to see the comparison between your two Rollieflexes, when are you going to start?
Not sure.... Could be in the next couple of weeks. Now you've stirred the curiousity again, so I might do it sooner . I will keep you posted....

In general, though, like Richard, I think TLRs are great. I might consider a medium format SLR at some point, but for now I am more than happy with using my TLRs. I'll gladly put up with their shortcomings in order to gain what they offer.

Cheers,
Svend

Last edited by Svend; 19th March 2017 at 11:34 PM.
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  #28  
Old 20th March 2017, 08:37 PM
silverphoton silverphoton is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Gould View Post
The biggest collection of cameras I have are old folders, both 35mm and MF, I have 16 or thereabouts, all working and they all get used, I prefer to use these older cameras to ''modern''cameras, just something about them, and the results speak for themselves, plus I have a good collection of solid boby 35mm cameras, Voightlander's,3 Ambi Silletes with the complete set of lenses, that i 35,50,90 and 130mm, and a couple of Voightlander Vitessa'a, again with the complete set of lenses, 35 50 100 and 135, 3 werras, Leica IIIc factory converted to the IIIf, ( Leitz used to do this in the 40.s and 50's with the screw mount cameras, they would convert an older body to the latest model, also a Canon model 7 rangefinder, and again they afre all used over the course of the year
Richard
That's quite a few folders you have there Richard, glad they all get a work out throughout the year.
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  #29  
Old 20th March 2017, 09:58 PM
silverphoton silverphoton is offline
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Svend,

Not sure.... Could be in the next couple of weeks. Now you've stirred the curiousity again, so I might do it sooner . I will keep you posted....

When you're ready no rush. I stumbled upon you Perceptol thread and at the time you wrote it you didn't have an enlarger if I remember correctly, so what did you get? I can't seem to figure out the multiple quote button.
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  #30  
Old 21st March 2017, 03:03 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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...at the time you wrote it you didn't have an enlarger if I remember correctly, so what did you get? I can't seem to figure out the multiple quote button.
Clicking "Quote" in the bottom right of a existing post enters that quote into a new composition. If you want to insert a second or third quote, etc., you can copy the relevant text, paste it into your new composition, then highlight the just-pasted text and click the "Wrap quote marks around selected text" button in the toolbar above (it's the 4th from right on the bottom row, the little text bubble icon).

Re. the enlarger, I ended up with a Beseler 23CII-XL, virtually new, and the seller included a Nikkor 80mm and a nice Gralab digital timer. I had a 23C years ago and loved it, so it was an easy choice. This one has the taller column so can do 16x20 on the baseboard - nice! And now that I have a 6x9 camera it's even sweeter, as the Beseler can handle that neg size.

Regards,
Svend
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