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  #1  
Old 19th June 2016, 01:44 PM
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Nabhar Nabhar is offline
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Default Glycol in D76 ?

I have recently developed my first three 4x5 sheets of 'donated' Fomapan 100 in homemade Stoeckler's two-bath. Although I'm not greatly experience at judging negatives, they look fine through the loupe and I'm pleased with the results, although they have yet to be viewed as contact prints.
I will shortly be buying my first box of 4x5 film. My local camera store will be ordering, so my choices will likely be Ilford's 4x5 stock of HP5, FP4 and Delta100; all of which I have used before in 120 format (using ID11 and Pyrocat HD in Glycol).

I intend to home-make a batch of D76 to use alongside my homemade Stoeckler's two-bath ( - I only have enough Metol left for one litre of D76 ).

My questions are:
1) Can I substitute Glycol for water in the D76 formula, as is done for Pyrocat HD in Glycol. Will this give me similar keeping properties, or is there some other element I am unaware of that makes this impossible or unpractical ? Or are there other formulas where this substitution IS possible - to obtain longer keeping qualities ?
2) Whether water or Glycol in the D76, what developer - Stoeckler's or D76 - should I consider as best matches for the 4x5 Fomapan and Ilford films mentioned ?

Thanks
JP
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Old 20th June 2016, 10:29 AM
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Never considered mixing D76 in glycol it lasts at least 6 months in an air free bottle when mixed with water. A friend here on FADU DaveP advises using a wine vacuum pump and stopper, it works. I use Baileys Irish Cream 1 ltr bottles (the wife seems to get through quite a bit of the stuff) they have dark glass and the size is just right. I do put my own label on them and date when mixed, would not want the wife downing a glass of FX37.
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Old 20th June 2016, 05:08 PM
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Thanks Norm,
I was hoping that I might be able to use, say, a 2% or so Glycol addition to the water just to extend it's 'shelf life'. But I guess 6 months in an air tight bottle is reasonable. Seems that my 1 litre bottle of Propylene Glycol will have to sit unopened a while yet.
Good ideas with the wine stopper and Bailey's bottles - pity I'm teetotal these days. But I do have some clear mason jars I could use if I wrap them in black Gorilla tape.
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Old 22nd June 2016, 02:24 PM
ashfaque ashfaque is offline
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Default Use a glass bottle

I don't know about Glycol + ID-11/D-76 combo. But you can extend the life of those dveleopers by using Butane gas (lighter fuel), which is quite cheap. Tetenal Protectan is the expensive alternative.*

Just feel the empty space of the bottle (, preferably glass bottles) with the gas as much as possible. Don't shake/move it until close the lid tightly.

Bests,
Ashfaque

* Basically, any chemically inard gas will do. Argon is another option but relatively more expensive. I think it is also used as a wine preserver.
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Last edited by ashfaque; 22nd June 2016 at 02:28 PM. Reason: More info added
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Old 22nd June 2016, 06:23 PM
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Thanks Ashfaque,
I have a 1 litre (A-bath) Stoeckler mix sitting in a 2 litre brown plastic bottle; which is okay short term. I'll add some butane to that, and see how it goes. If I notice any difference I will invest in a couple of proper brown glass bottles for the D76 mix later.
At my rate of shooting (1 or 2 images per week) any developer life-extension capability is welcome. Thanks for the tips

JP
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Old 22nd June 2016, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabhar View Post
Thanks Norm,
I was hoping that I might be able to use, say, a 2% or so Glycol addition to the water just to extend it's 'shelf life'. But I guess 6 months in an air tight bottle is reasonable. Seems that my 1 litre bottle of Propylene Glycol will have to sit unopened a while yet.
Good ideas with the wine stopper and Bailey's bottles - pity I'm teetotal these days. But I do have some clear mason jars I could use if I wrap them in black Gorilla tape.
The glycol in Pyrocat-HD (in the version in glycol of course) is not a preservative. It's the solvent instead of water. Its purpose is to allow solution of developing agents without water in a concentrate. It's water that allows deterioration of developing agents. The glycol works because it is an environment without any water. Adding a few percent glycol to a water-based developer won't achieve anything as there is still lots of water in the mixture. In the case of Pyrocat_HD, for use, the concentrate is mixed with water and Part_B containing carbonate etc.

Mixing D76 in glycol won't work because the ingredients won't all dissolve in it. Even if they could, the developer wouldn't work because water is needed to activate the developing chemistry. Developers mixed in glycol are concentrates that are mixed with water before use, and also a Part_B which generally contains an alkaline salt and often sulphite.

The best you could do is something like mixing up a two-part D76 with developing agents in a glycol concentrate and then the sulphite and borax in a Part_B (in water) and mix the two with maybe more water for use. Worth the trouble?
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Old 23rd June 2016, 09:17 PM
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'' is there some other element I am unaware of that makes this impossible or unpractical ? ''

I think you nailed that one for me Stocky. Comprehensive reply.
Bad news, but you've laid it to rest, and saved me some chemicals.

Good on ya Mate.
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Old 25th June 2016, 01:16 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is online now
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Gycol is only used for concentrated liquid developers, there would be no benefits in D76 and in fact it would slow development activity very adversely.

Ian
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