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  #11  
Old 8th May 2014, 06:47 PM
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The traditional way to get gloss was used by Paul Strand and others in the 1920s and 1930s.
In what way is that traditional? Maybe for 1920s and 1930s, today the traditional method is to use gloss paper.
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  #12  
Old 9th May 2014, 06:07 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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In what way is that traditional? Maybe for 1920s and 1930s, today the traditional method is to use gloss paper.
Clive, I think that the posts above about gloss all refer to 'gloss' paper, but fibre-based, which gives a semi-gloss surface until glazed by the various methods described. Resin-coated 'gloss' paper also needs special treatment to achieve the highest specular reflection.
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  #13  
Old 9th May 2014, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JOReynolds View Post
Clive, I think that the posts above about gloss all refer to 'gloss' paper, but fibre-based, which gives a semi-gloss surface until glazed by the various methods described. Resin-coated 'gloss' paper also needs special treatment to achieve the highest specular reflection.
Do you mean they don't refer to gloss paper, but fibre based. But if you want gloss, why not use gloss instead of trying to make a gloss finish on fibre based paper? Perhaps I am missing the point here.
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  #14  
Old 9th May 2014, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
Do you mean they don't refer to gloss paper, but fibre based. But if you want gloss, why not use gloss instead of trying to make a gloss finish on fibre based paper? Perhaps I am missing the point here.
because with a glazing process it turns the surface of FB paper into something that has surface finish like RC gloss paper.
Far easier and cheaper to use RC gloss paper in the first place.
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  #15  
Old 12th May 2014, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
In what way is that traditional? Maybe for 1920s and 1930s, today the traditional method is to use gloss paper.
The tradition for glossy photographs goes way back to albumen paper. That's really shiny. But albumen was already a thing of the past by the early 20th century. Paul Strand and others just could not buy that kind of gloss on the gelatin-silver papers of the time. The alternatives were ferrotyping, waxing, and varnishing.

Ferrotyping on hot polished metal is best done by machines on an industrial scale. An artisan like Strand, working alone, had to find an alternative to a big glazing machine. He chose varnish. Waxing works well too and FADUers may care to try it using good quality car wax. The downside is that wax marks easily for a photograph that's handled often. And both varnish and wax eventually go yellow.
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  #16  
Old 12th May 2014, 12:30 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
...if you want gloss, why not use gloss instead of trying to make a gloss finish on fibre based paper? Perhaps I am missing the point here.
Yes, the point is that 'gloss' paper is sold in two variants - fibre-based and resin-coated (PE or RC). Air-dried fibre-based 'gloss' paper has a semi-gloss surface, which limits Dmax, and requires glazing plates or glass, as posted above, to get a mirror finish. Air-dried 'gloss' RC paper is glossy, but not as glossy as when dried by infra-red radiation (think toaster - don't try it at home), which yields the highest 'gloss'.
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  #17  
Old 12th May 2014, 02:14 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Are these RC driers the kind of machine that colleges use? At Leamington College all the students used to pass their prints through a roller machine that I think was infra-red. It was very fast and certainly generated a lot of heat. RC gloss paper of course came out glossy but it may be my faulty memory but I don't recall the prints being much glossier that mine now which are only ambient or occasionally hot-air dried by switching on the heater element in the fan section.

Maybe the difference would be obvious if I were to compare two prints.

Mike
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  #18  
Old 12th May 2014, 04:08 PM
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Have you tried waxing and polishing the print?
Put the fibre print on some paper on the Aga or hot flat plate. Rub on a block of bees wax [they don't mind] till the paper is covered then rub it hard with some paper towels or similar. Take it off, the heat, put it in the fridge / freezer till it's done. Then take out and polish.

It smells great too :-)
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  #19  
Old 12th May 2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Are these RC driers the kind of machine that colleges use?
Maybe the difference would be obvious if I were to compare two prints.

Mike
There were three Ilford dryers, of which I have the middle one. In college applications they had a reputation of being mechanically troublesome, but this was probably because the device was switched on all day and into the evening, clocking up many thousands of hours in an average academic year. Touch wood, mine has, so far, been troublefree.
All three models had fans to stir the air around, input and output opposed rollers (mangles) and opposed radiant rod elements, like in 1970s bathrooms.
There was a thread a couple of years ago on this forum on the subject of hot-air drying for improved gloss of RC paper. The suggested method entailed removing excess moisture and applying heat from a hair dryer on full power, with the slot nozzle fitted. Start at one edge, with the airflow away from the middle of the print, then slowly move the airflow towards the opposite edge. The trick seems to be to get a rapid transition from cold and damp to searing heat. If you stop half-way through you will see the difference!
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  #20  
Old 12th May 2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOReynolds View Post
Yes, the point is that 'gloss' paper is sold in two variants - fibre-based and resin-coated (PE or RC). Air-dried fibre-based 'gloss' paper has a semi-gloss surface, which limits Dmax, and requires glazing plates or glass, as posted above, to get a mirror finish. Air-dried 'gloss' RC paper is glossy, but not as glossy as when dried by infra-red radiation (think toaster - don't try it at home), which yields the highest 'gloss'.
So what is the quantified difference between Dmax for RC gloss and RC dried by Infra-red as compared to treating fibre-based for a gloss finish?
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