Photographing at night

[Argentum]

Originally Posted by richardw

You give very good advice here.

I do it a little differently though and it works too. Zone on a 7 like you and also Zone on a 3 (or a 4 if too dark to read a 3) check the differences and note what the N is likely to be. Using a compensating developer gives even more tolerance...

RR

Nice work richard.

It's not nearly as difficult or contrived as some would have us believe but a good understanding of zone system (and where to break it) with properly calibrated exposure and devlopment makes it really very easy without resorting to some of the lookup tables and developer modifications that are out there on the web.

[Argentum]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray

Yes and in those days we didn't have to worry about a pensions crisis caused by people living too long

Mike

Get a copy of the film "Soylent Green" and see how much of what they are talking about is true to day and how far down the path we are towards it's contents.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Argentum

Get a copy of the film "Soylent Green" and see how much of what they are talking about is true to day and how far down the path we are towards it's contents.

Or even "Make Room, Make Room" the original novel by Harry Harrison

Argentum that is a nicely simple application of the Zone system for night photog - I will use it next time I do some (though I haven't done any in years) . . I used to try and futz around with guesswork and my Lunasix, but your method makes total sense. Thinking about it though you could use the incident method too, just apply the same values to your subject.
Oh and I'll second and third the recommendations for The Negative . . the more I read it the more I realise what a complete work of empowerment it is.

[Argentum]

Originally Posted by Phil

Or even "Make Room, Make Room" the original novel by Harry Harrison

Argentum that is a nicely simple application of the Zone system for night photog - I will use it next time I do some (though I haven't done any in years) . . I used to try and futz around with guesswork and my Lunasix, but your method makes total sense. Thinking about it though you could use the incident method too, just apply the same values to your subject.
Oh and I'll second and third the recommendations for The Negative . . the more I read it the more I realise what a complete work of empowerment it is.

Its difficult to use an incident meter for night work. In the example I posted it would have been impossible to meter the light on the spire with an incident meter from where I was without scafolding to climb up there The area of interest was too small to get a decent reading by pointing the incident meter at the spire from the taking location.

All depends on whether you can put the incident meter in the right place, mostly you can't which is why a spot meter makes a lot of sense.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Argentum

Its difficult to use an incident meter for night work. In the example I posted it would have been impossible to meter the light on the spire with an incident meter from where I was without scafolding to climb up there The area of interest was too small to get a decent reading by pointing the incident meter at the spire from the taking location.

All depends on whether you can put the incident meter in the right place, mostly you can't which is why a spot meter makes a lot of sense.

Get your drift - I suppose it all depends what you're photographing
I'm lucky with the Lunasix 3s . . it's got reflective, incident and a spot attachment . . they're great little meters actually.

[Argentum]

I would add that the technique I described above only works really well if you have nailed your zone system calibration such that a zone 1 neg prints as it should and a zone 9 neg prints as it should without changing print time. Or in other words, you have ensured that a black (zone 0) to white (zone 10) subject brightness range actually prints well at G2 with each zone showing what it should in detail.
I mention this because I know a lot of zone system workers do all the tests for film speed but never get round to checking whether zone 9 really does show just a hint of print tone or whether it turns out pure white.

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray

Yes and in those days we didn't have to worry about a pensions crisis caused by people living too long

Mike

But Brassai lived to be 83 Mike, pass the tabs.....

[dsallen]

Originally Posted by Argentum

Nice work richard.

It's not nearly as difficult or contrived as some would have us believe but a good understanding of zone system (and where to break it) with properly calibrated exposure and devlopment makes it really very easy without resorting to some of the lookup tables and developer modifications that are out there on the web.

I quite agree - people seem to make a big deal of night photography whereas it is really quite straight forward.

My approach is slightly different to other posts but it works very well for me.

Assuming that you have tested for your personal EI, and know the effect of reciprocity on your choice of film, night time exposures are fairly straightforward. The use of a compensation developer such as Barry Thornton's Two-Bath developer also simplifies things as it stops your highlights burning out.

Basically you need a meter that is sensitive in low light and you need to make a reflected reading from the darkest area that you wish to retain good detail. You then take this reading (the meter believes that it is reading a scene with an average brightness equivalent to Zone V) and adjust it to to Zone III (i.e two stops LESS than the meter indicated so if the meter says 8 seconds at f11 you use 2 seconds at f11.

For this image

http://www.fenster61.de/portfolio/ds-allen-night-shift

I metered the stem of the tree towards the front (I had decided that detail in the tree further away was not important for the result that I wanted).

Set the reading to Zone III.

Applied a reciprocity factor. I only use Delta 400 rated at an EI of 200 and my tests have shown that the following reciprocity corrections work well:

Meter indicates 10 seconds = Actual exposure 25 seconds
Meter indicates 15 seconds = Actual exposure 50 seconds
Meter indicates 20 seconds = Actual exposure 85 seconds
Meter indicates 25 seconds = Actual exposure 130 seconds

Best,

David
www.dsallen.de

[Argentum]

Originally Posted by dsallen

I quite agree - people seem to make a big deal of night photography whereas it is really quite straight forward.

My approach is slightly different to other posts but it works very well for me.

Assuming that you have tested for your personal EI, and know the effect of reciprocity on your choice of film, night time exposures are fairly straightforward. The use of a compensation developer such as Barry Thornton's Two-Bath developer also simplifies things as it stops your highlights burning out.

Basically you need a meter that is sensitive in low light and you need to make a reflected reading from the darkest area that you wish to retain good detail. You then take this reading (the meter believes that it is reading a scene with an average brightness equivalent to Zone V) and adjust it to to Zone III (i.e two stops LESS than the meter indicated so if the meter says 8 seconds at f11 you use 2 seconds at f11.

For this image

http://www.fenster61.de/portfolio/ds-allen-night-shift

I metered the stem of the tree towards the front (I had decided that detail in the tree further away was not important for the result that I wanted).

Set the reading to Zone III.

Applied a reciprocity factor. I only use Delta 400 rated at an EI of 200 and my tests have shown that the following reciprocity corrections work well:

Meter indicates 10 seconds = Actual exposure 25 seconds
Meter indicates 15 seconds = Actual exposure 50 seconds
Meter indicates 20 seconds = Actual exposure 85 seconds
Meter indicates 25 seconds = Actual exposure 130 seconds

Best,

David
www.dsallen.de

Some script in your web page is causing my browser to lock up and throw not responding messages due to the script. Must be script reciprocity.

[Argentum]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray

Yes and in those days we didn't have to worry about a pensions crisis caused by people living too long

Mike

Don't worry, the government are on the ball and thinking about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27062273