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  #11  
Old 29th August 2014, 05:03 PM
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Why less time for RC? I thought the era of "speed" paper was over?
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  #12  
Old 29th August 2014, 06:36 PM
SanMiguel SanMiguel is offline
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Wow - many thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my questions. These are all so helpful to me. Already there are a couple of issues that I can see need attention.

Development times (print) are something that up to now I've been somewhat blasé about. Confession - I don't actually time prints in the developer, just wait for what seems a decent amount of time before moving them to the stop bath. To be fair it probably is around the 2 min mark but I'll get a timing device (aka clock with luminous second hand) and standardise, which will take one more variable out of the whole process.

Getting consistent well-exposed negatives is something I hadn't really given much thought to. Well, that's not strictly true - I do take my time over exposure and do have as rule of thumb 'meter for the shadows and then stop down 2' but I hadn't really made the link between film speed, negative exposure and subsequent darkroom process - apart from the obvious one (that you need negatives with some variation in tone to be able to print anything of interest). This makes sense - I can see how achieving some degree of consistency in the negative stage will help with my darkroom process.

This is something I will start to look at in more detail, beginning with your suggested method for determining my EI for a given film/developer/process, David (dsallen) - which seems like a very sensible starting point. One question: when developing the test strips (steps 6&7 in your plan), should this be done with no filters or (in my case with under-the-lens filters) a medium grade 3 filter?

Thanks again everyone and I'll continue to check back should anyone else want to add anything.

Regards,
Michael
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  #13  
Old 29th August 2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
One question: when developing the test strips (steps 6&7 in your plan), should this be done with no filters or (in my case with under-the-lens filters) a medium grade 3 filter?
Sorry, a silly omission on my part.

The general rule of thumb has always been that

a) when you are using a light source that has either has condensers or a point light source, you should do your tests with a #2 filter.

b) when you are using a diffuser light source (either a colour head, or an enlarger with a diffuser in the light path or a multigrade head) you should do your tests with a #3 filter.

The reason for this is that films are developed for less time (lower contrast) for a condenser/point light source because these light sources are inherently more contrasty. Films intended for diffuse/colour/mulltigrade light sources are developed for longer (higher contrast) because these light sources are inherently less contrasty.

Although this has been the accepted norm for a very long time, many printers that I know use a #3 filter for their tests irrespective of the type of light source as they feel that testing and standardising at #3 is more flexible as this is the mid-point in the range of grades generally available (i.e #1 - #5).

As you are using below the lens filters, I presume that you may have either a standard condenser light source, a diffused condenser light source or a diffuser light source. So based on the accepted norm, you will need to choose the appropriate filter for your light source.

However, I personally would choose to use the #3 filter for all of your tests as you will have the widest possible range of options of interpreting your negatives as you move forward.

Let us know how you get on.

Bests,

David.
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  #14  
Old 30th August 2014, 07:14 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post
Wow - many thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my questions. These are all so helpful to me. Already there are a couple of issues that I can see need attention.

Development times (print) are something that up to now I've been somewhat blasé about. Confession - I don't actually time prints in the developer, just wait for what seems a decent amount of time before moving them to the stop bath. To be fair it probably is around the 2 min mark but I'll get a timing device (aka clock with luminous second hand) and standardise, which will take one more variable out of the whole process.

Getting consistent well-exposed negatives is something I hadn't really given much thought to. Well, that's not strictly true - I do take my time over exposure and do have as rule of thumb 'meter for the shadows and then stop down 2' but I hadn't really made the link between film speed, negative exposure and subsequent darkroom process - apart from the obvious one (that you need negatives with some variation in tone to be able to print anything of interest). This makes sense - I can see how achieving some degree of consistency in the negative stage will help with my darkroom process.

This is something I will start to look at in more detail, beginning with your suggested method for determining my EI for a given film/developer/process, David (dsallen) - which seems like a very sensible starting point. One question: when developing the test strips (steps 6&7 in your plan), should this be done with no filters or (in my case with under-the-lens filters) a medium grade 3 filter?

Thanks again everyone and I'll continue to check back should anyone else want to add anything.

Regards,
Michael
Michael
Timing print development and also fixing is important, I fix my RC prints for 3 minutes, then wash for 5, and for timing the whole process, including my film development, where accuracy is again very important, a minute or less out can make a big differance, I use a simple digital kitchen timer with 2 clocks, cost me less than a tenner from the local cook shop and has lasted me a few years now, and easier to use than a clock second hand
Richard
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  #15  
Old 30th August 2014, 11:23 AM
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I would say keep it simple. Box speed for film works as my prints show. You can print without using the filter to control print contrast.
As other have mentioned it is a good idea to make negatives that print well at grade 2 or 3.

A simple rule for judging you have the right contrast grade for any negative when doing a test strip is to look at how the segments graduation increases if it go's very dark to black in two or three segments then the contrast needs to be lowered. If it looks washed out then it needs to be increased.
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  #16  
Old 8th September 2014, 09:38 AM
SanMiguel SanMiguel is offline
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Thought it was time for an update. I've been working away in the darkroom, generally simplifying things where possible and becoming much more comfortable with the whole process.

It might help other newbies to list some of the issues which I feel really helped.

1. I started timing my developing and fixing - 2 mins developing and 3 mins fix. Another variable taken out of the equation.

2. I've been printing almost exclusively at grade 3, making sure I get full blacks. I think I was worrying too much about what choice of grade to print at, so again taking this out of the equation has helped me (re-)learn my craft. When I get to the point where I'm not happy with the tonal range in a print at grade 3 then I'll start to explore different grade options. For now grade 3 seems to work pretty well.

3. I knocked up a localised test strip printer, using Todd Barlow's post ("DIY Darkroom Localized Test Strip Printer") as a template. I found this really helpful in reading the test strip, since all the strips are now of the same part of the negative.

4. I did David Allen's procedure for determining my EI for chosen film and process. I found this a very useful exercise but don't think my choice of scene and lighting conditions was optimum so I intend to re-do this with a different scene and see where this leads me.

5. I've been reading (and re-reading) a lot. Tim Rudman's The Photographer's Master Printing Course has been my bedtime reading. I'm getting a better understanding of the paper curves and how the paper is likely to respond when exposed to light as well as contrast issues.

So all good - so good I'm off to post a scan of a print made last night, hopefully get some feedback. Many thanks again to all who helped - I'm having a lot of fun.

Michael
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  #17  
Old 8th September 2014, 03:55 PM
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Hi Michael just curious what printing times/method you use?
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  #18  
Old 8th September 2014, 04:17 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Just a small point about fixing. It might depend on what fixer you use but Ilford RapidFix at 1+4 is essentially fixed in 30 secs and 1 minute at 1+9 for RC paper. The best way if you have the trays or slots available in a Nova Slot Processor is the two bath fix method where you divide the fix time between the two slots so in the case of a 1 min fix it is 30 secs per tray/slot. So 2 x 30 secs at 1+4 gives you a good safety margin

If you were to move to FB paper then the shorter the fix time the better to avoid fixer getting too far into the paper which lengthens washing time.

However I should add:use whatever works for you and 3 min fix will certainly do no harm

Mike

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  #19  
Old 8th September 2014, 07:03 PM
SanMiguel SanMiguel is offline
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Sorry MartyNL not sure what you are asking...i'm using a diffuser enlarger with an LED light source (nothing fancy just off the shelf bulbs which i've positioned near the top of the mixing box). Combined with Ilford under the lens filters this gives me times in the 10-20s for 5x7 and 10x8 prints. This might mean exposures get a bit long for larger prints but we'll see. Prints are processed in a Nova 16x12 4-slot. I use standard MG IV and multigrade dev.

Mike what's the story with 2-bath fixing? I get 2 stage developing where hard is for the shadows and a soft for midtones but whats the advantage for fixing across 2 baths? Also, does the first bath have to be discarded before second bath? And, more generally, is there a 'test' that can be done to verify when enough fixing has occurred or is it a case of following manufacturer guidelines and adding an extra for safety? Questions, questions...

I want to try FB at some stage but at the price it'll have to wait for my technique to improve.

Cheers,
Michael
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  #20  
Old 8th September 2014, 08:31 PM
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Sorry Michael, I was wondering about the times you use when making a test strip. The shortest the longest and the increments between.
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