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  #21  
Old 14th December 2021, 01:56 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I did a search via Dr Google and came across this snippet:-

Borax powder is known as sodium tetraborate decahydrate in the UK. it may also be referred to as disodium tetraborate or sodium borate. Can You Buy Borax In The UK? Borax in the UK is mostly sold to professionals and business owners only due to its classification as a Reprotoxic compound. It does not say it is banned per se.

That said if you google 'Borax' you should be able to see what I found and there are a lot of places you can buy Borax on line.

The version of Borax you found in the supermarket may well be Borax Substitute also listed under the search and may not work as a developing agent.

Previously unknown to me, it seems Borax is in the main used as a flux when casting metals. It is derived from the Metallic element Boron.

Hi John,

I'll have to check the box next time I'm in the laundry soap aisle of my local supermarket to see if they sell a substitute here in Canada. But from the 20 Mule Team website, it seems they still make the real thing, at least for the US market:
https://www.20muleteamlaundry.com/about/ingredients/

Some time ago I did buy some borax for making homebrew D76, but only a small container for a couple of dollars from my supplier of photo chemicals, simply because I didn't need 2 kilos of the 20 Mule Team stuff.
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  #22  
Old 14th December 2021, 03:16 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Default An Update

From the 15th Edition of the Wellington Photographic Handbook as posted earlier:

Wellington Box M-Q Fine Grain Developer

Metol 2g
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 10g
Hydroquinone 2g
Borax 20g
Water to 1 litre


However in the 10th and 11th Editions it's closer still to D76 with a 1/10th the Sulphite


Wellington Box M-Q Fine Grain Developer (Earlier version)

Metol 2g
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 10g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax 20g
Water to 1 litre


Ian
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  #23  
Old 15th December 2021, 01:26 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Interesting stuff Ian. Just eyeballing the ratios of ingredients, it seems like it would work a bit like diluted D76, say 1+2 or so. Have you ever mixed up a batch and tried it?
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  #24  
Old 15th December 2021, 03:28 PM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Originally Posted by skellum View Post
Hi Martin,
I've just looked up some pictures of this place. It looks utterly merciless.
It is.

I used to go there in the height of summer pretty much every year to test cars air conditioning systems.

It is a fabulous place to visit - but not during the height of summer - and particularly if you were trying to work.

If we ever had to work on the cars we would wait until it had cooled off, by around 10PM, it had cooled of to only about 40~42C, so was about as good as it got.

The only trouble was the scorpions and spiders were attracted to the warmth of you and the cars and would like to join you was you worked underneath the cars.

Turns out you can get out from underneath a car very very quickly, if required - unsurprisingly.

I've been there in early November too, when it only got to about 40C and it was fabulous.

Martin
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  #25  
Old 16th December 2021, 08:24 AM
snusmumriken snusmumriken is offline
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The following is lifted from the HD Chemicals website, which came up in the top 5 search items. It seems to explain the situation, so I haven't looked any further. These kinds of regulation are not intended to prevent legitimate use. I have bought hazardous lab chemicals from similar suppliers throughout my career, and this requirement seems par for course. I expect that you merely have to register yourself in advance of purchase (i.e. no anonymous purchases) and state your use as photography. Borax keeps well, and 500g has kept me going for several years now. But don't eat it!

<<Can You Buy Borax In The UK?
Borax in the UK is mostly sold to professionals and business owners only due to its classification as a Reprotoxic compound. Individuals looking for where to buy borax powder in UK need to apply for approval before placing their orders. You can buy sodium tetraborate decahydrate UK here in 250g, 500g, 1500g, and 5000g sizes.>>
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  #26  
Old 16th December 2021, 08:30 AM
snusmumriken snusmumriken is offline
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And here is the SDS. Borax safety data sheet
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  #27  
Old 19th December 2021, 11:02 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Borax

If you are still after Borax, the dealer Firstcall sell it in individual chemical tubs. I cannot remember the cost but I think it is around £5 for 100gms.
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  #28  
Old 20th December 2021, 01:42 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
If you are still after Borax, the dealer Firstcall sell it in individual chemical tubs. I cannot remember the cost but I think it is around £5 for 100gms.
It is also available at this photographic company, at 200g @ £14.99:

https://ntphotoworks.com/product/pho...de-borax-100g/

Terry S
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  #29  
Old 20th December 2021, 03:54 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
It is also available at this photographic company, at 200g @ £14.99:

https://ntphotoworks.com/product/pho...de-borax-100g/

Terry S
However Terry, it is very expensive(14.99 for 200g) compared to what appears to be the genuine the 20 Mule Team stuff that is available on e-bay for £5.99. Svend has indicated that the 20 Mule Team stuff is genuine Sodium Tetraborate

Yes N&T says their's is "photographic grade" but does that mean anything? Unfortunately a few of the photographic sources such as N&T, Firstcall etc do sell raw photographic chemicals and one might expect their to be a bit of a premium but not well over twice as much

Mike
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  #30  
Old 20th December 2021, 04:47 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Well that Nick & Trick price is close to 10x what i pay for 1 kg, the laboratory grade Borax I buy is the same as or better than Photographic grade. I have the specifications for nearly all Photo grade chemicals somewhere, and it's more usually commercial grade rather than lab grade.

If I bought a 25kg bag then the price per Kg drops to below £4 a Kg, and I do buy some chemicals in 25kg or 12.5 kg quantities. When I opened an account with Consolidated Borax in the late 1980's we got a significant discount, that was buying 2 or 3 metric tonnes at a time, 40 bags per pallet

Ian
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