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  #11  
Old 29th July 2013, 05:10 PM
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Miha Miha is offline
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Originally Posted by JOReynolds View Post
When resin-coated (RC) paper first became available the photo-print print guru Ctein prophesied that prints made on this material would not last. This opinion has been handed around ever since, but almost 40 years have now passed and there has been no evidence of image failure.
Many evidence in my RC prints

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Four factors define the lifespan of silver-gelatine images: storage, display and handling, but mainly washing. If process chemicals are left in the gelatine, they will attack the metallic silver particles that make up the image.
There is much more to it and not everything is well understood unfortunatelly.

FB papers use baryta coating (Barium Sulfate) which is chemically stable while Titanox (Titanium Dioxide) used in RC papers is not. It is light sensitive and generates free radicals. This releasing is repressed in modern papers, but was the main cause of deterioration in the 70s. Still, if a print is exposed to strong sun radiation (or polutants), some free radicals can start to generate.

Also silver ions can be released by light. If this happens to a FB print, the ions can escape trough fibres, with RC prints, the ions can't escape trough the PE layer, so they accumulate as metallic silver on the surface. This is called bronzing

The most stable are probably cotton papers with no baryta as baryta is the most difficult to wash. But nothing is trully arcival - a stone sculpture perhaps
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  #12  
Old 29th July 2013, 05:59 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Thanks, Miha. You are right - lots of factors, some poorly understood. And I was not aware that there was a chemical difference between the reflective interlayers in FB and RC (I did most of my phototech work on colour emulsions, which have been RC since the late sixties). But I just checked the wash recomnmendations for FB and RC - very different. I also noted that Ilford recommend Selenium toning for extended RC image permanence.
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  #13  
Old 29th July 2013, 11:12 PM
Paulographic Paulographic is offline
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I started using RC papers, Ilfospeed in 1976 as a student in larger than 8x10 sizes to help drying flat. I have three 16x12 prints from then framed and hung on the wall now for twenty years without deterioration, I compare them with 10x8s from the same negs, kept in portfolios away from light, sometimes.
I was taught to fix and wash properly and probably still do overdo RC papers. I use FB papers because I want the surface, semi/matt sometimes to work on or the warm tones. (Just bought a box of Forte warmtone on ebay and keeping fingers crossed it's OK).I use a wash aid and leave them in running water for an hour at least and not in winter when the tap water is cold.
I've not seen any bronzing on RC papers myself but have seen plenty of silver migration on traditional papers, mainly old vintage prints that I like to collect, but also on more modern ones that I can date by the subject matter.
The only problems I've had with getting a good dense black is with old papers that are losing it a bit, RC or FB. I look out for this as I shoot things against a black background a lot.
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  #14  
Old 30th July 2013, 07:25 AM
John King John King is online now
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Default Resin Coated V Fibre

For me it is a personal preference and that is for fibre every time where I have a print that I want to have just that 'little bit extra'. I always had a feeling that resin papers were as long lived as fibre and possibly easier to get into that condition where they would last, but the finish of a resin paper can in no way match that given by a fibre based print.

The base of the print on which the emulsion is coated is a bit on the thin side and does not give the image 'depth' if I can explain it that way. The only surface that I have found that comes, or came close to it, was the semi matt finish of the now extinct Agfa multigrade types although Kentmere semi matt isn't far behind.
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  #15  
Old 30th July 2013, 08:02 AM
Paulographic Paulographic is offline
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I agree about Agfa RC MG papers. I've used a lot of them, and Jessops own brand when it was rebadged Agfa. They were quite punchy. The last lot I've used had lost some contrast and maximum black. These were the ones in a plain red box, older I believe that later stock which had a B+W photograph on the front.Using Bromophen and fiddling with filters helped.
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  #16  
Old 30th July 2013, 08:42 AM
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AGFA MCP 310/312 and MCC 111 papers are available as ADOX MCP 310/312 and MCC 110 papers as you sure know.
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  #17  
Old 30th July 2013, 08:44 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I also have used a lot of both the Agfa RC papers and the Jessops re badged agfa papers, always in the semi matt, and liked them a lot, very punchy, and a bit of warmth, I have yet to try the adox re make of the agfa paper, but others who have that I have spoken too reckon that they are identical to the old Agfa paper, so perhaps next time I order I will get a box to try, I use a lot of the Kentmere VC select, and find it is also very punchy, good blacks and good tonal range, I agree with John that the '' feel'' of FB paper, is perhaps better, but I personally prefer the look of my prints on RC, I believe that some printers print better on RC and some print better on FB, and I am one of the former,. Another point with the Kentmere paper is that it tones in Sepia very well, as did the old Agfa paper, they were among the top toning papers in RC. as for longetivity, I made a print for some friends of mine at least 30 years ago, maybe more,on early RC, it has spent a lot of it's life framed on their wall, and it is as good as the day I made it,I think that as long as RC paper is processed to archival standards, A lot easier with RC than FB, the print will easily last as long as a print made on FB, and longer if the FB paper is not washed Etc properly.
Richard
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  #18  
Old 30th July 2013, 11:20 AM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Anyone who's interest is in obtaining the best possible print quality will not be using RC paper for their Fine Prints so how well they archive is not important.
J.

I completely disagree, I have been making fine prints on RC for many years, in fact I prefer to work with RC
Richard
Well there we have it in a nutshell. Two totally opposite points of view. No more needs to be said I think, other than it's down to each printer which type of paper they prefer to use and what they believe, otherwise the argument could go on infinitum and we don't want that to happen...

Terry S
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  #19  
Old 30th July 2013, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Gould View Post
I agree with John that the '' feel'' of FB paper, is perhaps better, but I personally prefer the look of my prints on RC
Me too. And they are made to look at rather than to feel!


Steve.
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  #20  
Old 30th July 2013, 12:26 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOReynolds View Post
When resin-coated (RC) paper first became available the photo-print print guru Ctein prophesied that prints made on this material would not last. This opinion has been handed around ever since, but almost 40 years have now passed and there has been no evidence of image failure.
Actually there was plenty of evidence of image failure with some of the early RC papers but this was addressed and modern papers are far better.

Image bleaching occured with some papers stored in plastic display files and similar storage.

Ian
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