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  #21  
Old 15th January 2022, 11:03 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
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A little update (if true) about Fuji C200 and Kodak.
I have no reason to doubt the presenter, but it is a strange and interesting story.

Click the link to Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8nTCV6LiuE

Cheers.
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  #22  
Old 16th January 2022, 08:39 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Colour Film

That is on You Tube so it must be right!

Sorry he states himself, it is his opinion so I will give a score of less than 1 for accuracy. Those 'silver caps' I suggest are merely reflections from the lighting used and not really silver at all. Another 'conspiracy theory'?

Last edited by John King; 16th January 2022 at 08:45 AM.
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  #23  
Old 16th January 2022, 12:18 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I fear there may be something in this, John. The curves of both films look identical as well. In addition Greg Davis who calls himself the Naked Photographer and whose presentations are generally well done and last for between 12- 25 mins, appears to have to taken the trouble to do a 35 second presentation on this in which he opens the seemingly "new" Fuji film announcement by Fuji and says "cool" joyously then looks at the information about the film and says "what!" and finally utters the letters "WTF" quite vehemently

I have never seen him do this before i.e. neither act like that, speak like that nor finish in 35 secs

It would seem to me that he has done it this way to convey his astonishment and clearly great annoyance at what he has found.

I think at times we in the U.K. underestimate how much the "great yellow father" of Kodak means to a body of U.S. photographers as a national institution and how some have gone from a period of long mourning about Kodak's misfortunes to a feeling that somehow, if this move is true, that Kodak has betrayed them

It seems to me that the better way to look at it is that in the world of business and seeking ways to make money, it's just in fact "business"

However that's me expressing a view that is largely irrelevant to the question: "Does this Fuji 200 represent a business tie-up between Kodak and Fuji"

I think there are strong signs it might

Mike
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  #24  
Old 16th January 2022, 03:11 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Fuji/Kodak

One thing I noticed was he omitted to mention was Fuji have a manufacturing plant in Europe either Holland or Belgium I'm not sure which. I is the same place where they make the RA4 paper

Call me a professor of cynicism but the graphs and charts could have come from anywhere. If there was a tie up between Kodak and Fuji, I am sure that there would have been something in the press about it before now.

On the plus side there does seem to be a little improvement in the supplies of film, but it is still expensive judging by what we used to pay.
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  #25  
Old 16th January 2022, 05:04 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post

Call me a professor of cynicism but the graphs and charts could have come from anywhere. If there was a tie up between Kodak and Fuji, I am sure that there would have been something in the press about it before now.

On the plus side there does seem to be a little improvement in the supplies of film, but it is still expensive judging by what we used to pay.
John, these days my cynicism tends to lead me to the opposite conclusion i.e. what we were once used to from Kodak and Fuji in their respective behaviours may need to be set aside when we attempt to judge their actions

For instance I have yet to see a good explanation of why Fuji were so sure that Acros had to be discontinued and yet within a short time it had decided to produce Acros II in its place

There was much rejoicing and instant reaching for wallets despite the price and despite no attempt to provide a real explanation of what had happened in the film market to make this viable again except that it had taken a chance that it could be now sold at a premium and this appeared to have worked.

So a true business masterstroke may be the only aspect on which we can all agree on Acros II and for reasons that are hidden to us outsiders there may be good business reasons why Fuji now has a 200 colour film that would appear to closely resemble a Kodak film.

Mike
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  #26  
Old 16th January 2022, 09:38 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
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More grist for the Mill.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/386244...-looks-like-it

It will be interesting to see which is the cheaper.

Cheers.
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  #27  
Old 16th January 2022, 10:17 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nat Polton View Post
It will be interesting to see which is the cheaper.
I used a lot of Kodak Gold in the past, but at close to $11 difference, as shown on the order, for three packs of the films, I know which I'd buy to try. Sorry Kodak.

Terry S
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  #28  
Old 17th January 2022, 09:25 AM
John King John King is offline
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Why should there be a sudden collaboration between the two companies? They have been working in seperate directions for decades now and are rivals in what is a very tight market.

Fuji used to relabel the C200 as 'Agfa Vista,' but as far as I am aware they never did it for any other company or brand name.

The display of graphs and a video on an uncorroborated theory cuts no ice with me. Until the companies declare that they are working together or one has declared they are the same film I will reserve my judgement.

One other way to tell if they are the same is the 6 figure code number printed on each cassette. This is under the edge of the felt light trap. In the case of Fuji the number is 106254 and for Kodak Gold it is 512504. These remain constant irrespective under what brand name it is sold under When Fuji was marketing C200 as Agfa Vista the number was the same as the current Fuji C200.
Fuji also have another number printed close by but that is nothing to0 to do with the type of film - possibly a batch number which Kodak don't have

B&W film also has a similar number and a few years ago when people were claiming that Kentmere was being sold as another branded film (Rollie) this was used to disprove that theory
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  #29  
Old 17th January 2022, 01:53 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
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I took a look at the Kodak Alaris Gold 200 data Sheet, also the Fujifilm C200 Sheet, and it took some digging to get the Fujifilm Product Information Bulletin for Fujifilm 200 Negative Film.
They have dropped the "C" on the Fujifilm Bulletin, dated 20 DEC 2021.

The links for all three are below.
For proof of the pudding it is best if you search for these sites yourself, and then you will know that a hoax is not being instigated.

I printed out the page with the the graphs/curves on them, and then simply laid them one over the other and held them up to a strong light.
To my untrained eye they are the same curves, even if they are printed at slightly different sizes.

The inks to the data sheets below.

Kodak Gold 200
https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/site...2_Gold_200.pdf

Fujifilm C200 original
https://asset.fujifilm.com/master/em...tasheet_01.pdf

Fujifilm 200 new
https://asset.fujifilm.com/master/am...eet-master.pdf



Cheers.
Kodak Gold 200
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  #30  
Old 17th January 2022, 03:18 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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There has been some speculation on reasons why this has happened on Photrio and while I cannot recall accurately enough to attempt to repeat those reasons, I recall thinking that a few had a kernel of "likely truth" in them

For anyone with an interest in why this may have happened take a look at Photrio

Mike
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