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  #131  
Old 23rd January 2022, 04:41 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Taken a break

I have just taken a break from colour printing this afternoon and have made two quite reasonable A4 size colour RA4 prints from negatives that are at least 10 years old

One of a swan pruning itself and eying up a feather it has just pulled from its breast. It is a high contrast print but I set the exposure to ensure that some detail is kept in the white feathers. The reflection in the muddy water in front of it just makes it for me.

The other is a lone Hawthorn tree up on the moors above Catterick Garrison, North Yorkshire in very early spring - it must have been around 2008/9. Neither are competition winner,s but to get the colour balance right and the exposure spot on under the enlarger is a bonus for me.

I will scan and post them once they are dry. Here they are
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Last edited by John King; 23rd January 2022 at 05:05 PM.
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  #132  
Old 23rd January 2022, 04:42 PM
theobrown theobrown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
Hi Theo. Development of the print should be done for the time suggested by the paper and chemical manufacturer, and at their recommended temperature. 20C is normal for B&W. For RC papers, the development time is normally 1-2 minutes. If your developer is fresh, temperature is 20C, and the print is black in 60 seconds, it is likely over exposed on the enlarger. If your enlarger has the correct bulb as specified by the manufacturer, you should be able to get print exposure times somewhere between 15-30 seconds. Are you using the lens stopped down, at least two full stops from maximum aperture? F5.6 is a good start for lenses with f2.8 maximum, and f8 if you have an f4 maximum. You can stop down further to give you longer basic exposures.
One other thing to watch, however, is the overall density of your negatives. If they are under-exposed, they will appear very ‘thin’. Normal print exposure times will then give a very dark print. Have a look at your negatives first, just to make sure you are happy with their exposure. Although print exposure and development can be varied quite a bit, you should be able to have a fairly standard exposure time, and development time which give you an acceptable basic print almost every time. Post an image of some negatives if you need advice about their exposure.
Alex


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Hi Alex,
Yeah I thought my times were shorter than recommended. Huh. I haven't really played around with the aperture of the lens too much, but as I recall I did it 2 stops down from max. I think my negatives were decent, they looked ok, but I'm not home so I don't have any of them with me (living at uni atm) so can't check for a few weeks.
Theo
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  #133  
Old 23rd January 2022, 04:51 PM
theobrown theobrown is offline
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Originally Posted by BuzzNL View Post
Just dropping in quickly here.
Theo, are you sure you don't have any light leaks in your darkroom, either from windows / doors or from the enlarger itself during the exposure?
And are your safelights tested safe?
What happens if you develop/stop/fix a piece of paper directly without exposure?
Thanks Buzz, these are interesting points and could be the root of the problem. I use a kitchen when at home and try my best to blackout the windows but there are slithers of light coming through but honestly not much at all - when developing film this doesn't appear to be a problem, but still I guess it might be that.

In terms of my safelight, yeah that's the most likely culprit. I have just been using a red light on a head torch, untested as a proper safelight. However, this didn't seem to be a problem when I developed orthochromatic film (my first ever rolls). I'm looking into getting a DUKA 50 safelight since I am setting up a colour darkroom at uni, so hopefully that should solve that issue.

I haven't tried developing a paper without exposure, I will try that next time.

I won't be doing any B&W developing for a while, but when I do I'll be back with updates. It's all quite new to me and I'm doing it solo and teaching myself (and everything I do opens up 100 more questions!)

Thanks
Theo

Last edited by theobrown; 23rd January 2022 at 05:09 PM.
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  #134  
Old 23rd January 2022, 06:06 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Duka50

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobrown View Post
I'm looking into getting a DUKA 50 safelight since I am setting up a colour darkroom at uni, so hopefully that should solve that issue.
I have found a DUKA or Kaiser safelight (Same model - different name) to be the gold standard for printing colour. They can still be found for around £50-£70 but are getting fewer. If you find 2 and you can afford to, buy both because there are virtually no replacement bulbs to be had. I have a spare but that was bought around 15 yrs ago

I have experimented with various positions to place the DUKA. High on the wall reflecting off the ceiling, hanging from the ceiling, on top of a cabinet, again reflecting off the ceiling. What I have found to be the best compromise is to have it on a shelf about 6 feet behind me and about shoulder height also reflecting off the ceiling. This gives me a good spread of usable light which is not too dim, but dim enough to allow easy working.

The Duka light output is also adjustable in units up to 50. I have mine set at 10 and I stand in front of the light and work in my shadow. This allows me perhaps 2 mins of exposure to the safelight reflection before it will start to degrade the paper.

Another bonus if you are going to be a regular user is a Nova processor. That means there is no cleaning out the drum after each print or test strip or a lot of clearing up after you are finished. Just replenish the developer and blix, wipe it down. pop the lids back in and you are done. I also cover the NOVA with cling film which slows down any evaporation from the slots.
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  #135  
Old 23rd January 2022, 06:21 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
One other thing to watch, however, is the overall density of your negatives. If they are under-exposed, they will appear very ‘thin’. Normal print exposure times will then give a very dark print. Have a look at your negatives first, just to make sure you are happy with their exposure. Although print exposure and development can be varied quite a bit, you should be able to have a fairly standard exposure time, and development time which give you an acceptable basic print almost every time. Post an image of some negatives if you need advice about their exposure.
Alex
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I have sometimes found it can be very difficult to assess the density of colour negatives due to the orange mask on the film base. What looks like a hopelessly under exposed negative can produce surprisingly good results. It is very definitely not like assessing B&W.
The colour balance will be affected too if the film is under or over developed because the mask will also change colour almost imperceptibly.
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  #136  
Old 23rd January 2022, 08:58 PM
theobrown theobrown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I have found a DUKA or Kaiser safelight (Same model - different name) to be the gold standard for printing colour. They can still be found for around £50-£70 but are getting fewer. If you find 2 and you can afford to, buy both because there are virtually no replacement bulbs to be had. I have a spare but that was bought around 15 yrs ago

I have experimented with various positions to place the DUKA. High on the wall reflecting off the ceiling, hanging from the ceiling, on top of a cabinet, again reflecting off the ceiling. What I have found to be the best compromise is to have it on a shelf about 6 feet behind me and about shoulder height also reflecting off the ceiling. This gives me a good spread of usable light which is not too dim, but dim enough to allow easy working.

The Duka light output is also adjustable in units up to 50. I have mine set at 10 and I stand in front of the light and work in my shadow. This allows me perhaps 2 mins of exposure to the safelight reflection before it will start to degrade the paper.

Another bonus if you are going to be a regular user is a Nova processor. That means there is no cleaning out the drum after each print or test strip or a lot of clearing up after you are finished. Just replenish the developer and blix, wipe it down. pop the lids back in and you are done. I also cover the NOVA with cling film which slows down any evaporation from the slots.
Yeah I have found DUKAs for around £50, but I'm worried about the difficulty/ expense of replacing the bulb if it dies, so would be potentially a waste of money. Alternatively I get used to working in pitch black but that could be tricky. It seems as though there aren't any alternatives to DUKA, at least not for colour film. I'm also slightly concerned about cutting paper in the dark.

In terms of Nova processors, I was planning on using trays instead of drums. I've always only used trays they seem easier. But to check, if the chemicals are in the tray, I don't have to change them for each print do I? And then how many times can I use the chemicals for subsequent developing sessions, if I put them back in containers? My understanding is that you can reuse both C41 and RA4 chemicals multiple times, hence why trays are easier. Correct me if I'm wrong.

My budget is pretty small (I'm a student!), so will try to look into what I need before buying anything. This hobby is so spenny.

Thanks
Theo

Enviado desde mi moto g(10) mediante Tapatalk
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  #137  
Old 24th January 2022, 12:26 AM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theobrown View Post
Yeah I have found DUKAs for around £50, but I'm worried about the difficulty/ expense of replacing the bulb if it dies, so would be potentially a waste of money.
Duka bulbs are no longer available and haven't been for some time. As I said I bought my spare about 15 years ago and it cost me around £100 then. The complete lamps were over £200!

You mentioned a DUKA with film. No, No, No! Film is too sensitive for even the slightest glimmer of light from any source. That has to be loaded into a tank and processed in complete darkness. Even with printing that room should rally have no light leaks

I know of others who develop colour prints in dishes and no you don't have to change the developer after each print. As a rule of thumb (A Kodak thumb) RA4 developer needs replenishing with 100cc of fresh developer for every 80 sq ins of paper = ten 8x10 sheets and this includes test strips you use. You need to keep a reasonably accurate tally of what you use.

I would suggest, make up 1 litre of developer and store in a bottle but mark the level on the bottle when new. So if you use a 10x8 dish pour about 1/2 into the dish and work with that. At the end of the session pour it back into the bottle and add fresh developer to bring it up to the same quantity as when you started. It won't be accurate but close enough.

Normally RA4 prints are made at 35degrees C for 45 seconds but some use a lower temp and a longer development time, This will need a bit of experimenting with. The crux of the operation is standardisation. Same film, same film developer, same paper, same temperature. It is a bit like walking on a knife edge which sounds difficult, but with experience you will work your own sequence and what is best for you.

The blix bath should also be replenished at the same rate as the developer but with 'carry over' from dish to dish the level in the bottle will not drop as much as with the developer so resort to the normal replenishment rate of 100cc per 80sq ins. You could also use a stop bath between the dev and blix but this does not really need replenishment, just keeping up to level until the yellow colour turns to purplish blue.

If you have sensitive skin, it may be useful to wear surgical gloves if using a dish especially with the blix. It affected me quite badly, it spread over my hands and wrists and just looked like eczema. Creams even on prescription did not help. Surgical gloves stopped that. You can always use them more than once. just rinse them before you take them off.
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  #138  
Old 24th January 2022, 12:11 PM
Martin Aislabie's Avatar
Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theobrown View Post
I've never used FB paper, and I think that's why all my prints have come out quite flat and low contrast. RC paper doesn't pop like I'd like (unless there is something else I am doing wrong).

Theo
I always found that Ilford Multigrade RC IV Gloss finish air dried at room temperature gave quite a dull finish.

Ilfords more recent papers have a much brighter finish when dried at room temps.

I'm not sure what paper you are using but that might be one of your problems.

Martin
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  #139  
Old 24th January 2022, 01:04 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Originally Posted by theobrown View Post
What's weird is my exposure time on enlarger is around 9 seconds (very short) and developing time is around 35 seconds (also very short). Any longer on either of these and the print becomes all dark.

Theo
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
Hi Theo. Development of the print should be done for the time suggested by the paper and chemical manufacturer, and at their recommended temperature. 20C is normal for B&W. For RC papers, the development time is normally 1-2 minutes. If your developer is fresh, temperature is 20C, and the print is black in 60 seconds, it is likely over exposed on the enlarger.

Alex
Hi Theo,

Alex has basically said what I was going to...

The usual recommended time in the developer is between one and two minutes at about 20C and NOT anything shorter, like your 35 seconds in it. Best to check the bottle or online for info on this.

When I've used Ilford's multigrade paper developer, I dilute it at 1+9 and give my RC prints a FULL 60 Seconds and NOT a second less. As you become more experienced, you might lengthen this time, but VERY RARELY is it shortened.

So try as Alex says. Stop down you lens, which will make your image on the baseboard darker, do a few test-strips if necessary and develop the final prints as above. You should then see an immediate improvement in your work.

Good luck in your next session.

Terry S
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  #140  
Old 24th January 2022, 01:17 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
As a rule of thumb (A Kodak thumb) RA4 developer needs replenishing with 100cc of fresh developer for every 80 sq ins of paper = ten 8x10 sheets and this includes test strips you use. You need to keep a reasonably accurate tally of what you use.
John, I'm sitting here doubting myself about your top up requirements, but isn't 80 square inches just ONE 10" x 8" print and not ten as you suggest? And if so, is your 100CC then correct for ten sheets and 10cc for each 10" x 8"?

Also Theo, as you are at Uni, where studying will take up a good bit of your time (which Uni out of interest and what are you studying?), PERSONALLY I would stick with learning one process well before trying to learn the other. And again personally, I would start out with just B/W and learn it well. A lot learnt with this process, will then put you in a place of better understanding, when you then come to have a go at colour. Just a suggestion of course.

Terry S
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