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  #1  
Old 27th July 2018, 03:58 PM
MikeHeller MikeHeller is offline
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Default Fixer age

There have been a number of threads about how long full and working strength fixer will last. I have recently had some experience of fixer going off and I thought I would share my experience as it may be of interest to others and someone may be able to tell me what is going on chemically.

Over the past six months I have experienced the walls of the fixer slot of my Nova print processor (toaster) going black which would only clean off using the 'Tar Buster' cleaner and a toothbrush. This happened after a few days even with 'fresh' fixer and having fixed only a few prints. Previously I have used fixer in the slot that has been there for a number of months and fixed a fair number of prints with no problems.

I then noticed when I made up some fresh fixer for film, there was a fine suspension in the working solution. There was clearly something wrong. I fixed the film (120 Film) and then later another one (after testing on the leader as I normally do with 35mm) which appear to be OK.

I took a closer look at my stock (5l Ilford Rapid Fixer) and sure enough there was a precipitate crust on the bottom of the container. I had bought this in 2015. I decided to chuck out the rest of this stock (ca. 1l) and any other fixer (I had been given quite a lot by people in their flight to digital) similarly affected.

I did, however, find an unbroached bottle of Fotospeed FX30 and filled the fixing slot of the toaster and fixed a few prints about a week ago and there is no black deposit......yet. I hope I have found the cause of my problem resulting from my possibly misplaced desire not to replace chemicals until I have to.
Mike
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Old 27th July 2018, 06:18 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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I had the experience of fixer going off recently. I had bought a 5l container from a supplier. It was much more recently than 2015, although I have no idea how long it had been on the suppliers shelf. There was a precipitate, but also a strong sulphurous smell. I didn’t have the blackened Nova slot.
Alex.


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Old 28th July 2018, 07:29 AM
Paulographic Paulographic is offline
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I had two five litre containers of Amfix which by the end had thrown a precipitate and had the same sulphurous "eggy" smell. I filtered the last couple of litres or so and it worked fine. Judging by the container labels I suspect they were old, but cheap.
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Old 28th July 2018, 08:16 AM
Quendil Quendil is offline
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I had an adox fixer bought this year that went off quickly and had the sulphur smell. Now using the ilford fixer and have not had the same problem.


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Old 28th July 2018, 10:40 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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It seems to me there are two questions that Mike's fixer thread has raised.

1. Once it throws a precipitate is the fixer either exhausted or at least so seriously compromised as to be not worth the risk?

2. How good is the correlation between a precipitate forming and the sulphurous smell arising and is it the smell that is the real indicator of exhausted fixer?

From Mike's thread, precipitate appearing does seem to correlate with the Nova slot going black. This may be a big problem if you are fastidious about the appearance of the fixer slot. It may or may not bother you if you use trays and dump after every session or maybe every couple of sessions and it may not bother you if it can be cleaned from the slot easily after soaking for 12-24 hours in dilute bleach.

I may have been lucky( or living a delusion) as I have still have stock Ilford Rapid fixer that I decanted into airtight winebags in 2009 that still has no precipitate.

I haven't used any fixer for a few months but the thread has been a useful reminder to me to check its fixing power before I use it again

Can I take it that if there is no precipitate and it clears a film leader within my usual time of about 6 mins for Ilford films then the fixer is still good to go?

If the answer is yes, two thoughts/questions come to mind.

1. It is worth decanting stock fixer on opening into winebags? The answer in my case is that it is worth doing.
2. Is there really a difference between fixer makes? We know that Ilford does not make its own chemistry. It contracts the job to "fixer makers" but does it insist on there being an "extra ingredient" for want of a better phrase that gives Ilford a longer life?

I note that Champion's Amfix is cheaper by a margin from that of Ilford, Tetenal, Fotospeed etc but Champion actually makes the stuff Is there any reason to believe that Amfix is really any different, other than being cheaper?

I have to say that I would be tempted by Amfix the next time I need fixer but the nagging, although possibly unfounded, doubt is there that maybe there is something different with Ilford fixer.

After all and provided that the two tests above of 1. no precipitate and 2. reasonable clearing time are reliable, then 9 years life out of Ilford fixer is a good reason not to change.

Mike
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Old 28th July 2018, 04:53 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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As far as stock fixer is concerned I use Amfix, buy it in 5 liter bottles, I do not decant it into smaller bottles, and a 5 liter bottle lasts me probably 2 or 3 years, my latest bottle, or should I say 5 liter container, is down to 2 1/2 to 3 liters, I have had it at least 3 years and no sulpher smell, no precipitate forming, in fact it smells, well, like fixer. I mixed some up yesterday as it was time to change the working strength fixer, I mix 600ml at 1/4, and fix 8 to 10 times before discarding, not not 8 or 10 films as for some sessions I develop 2 films at a time, 35mm or 120, after the 6 to 10 uses I discard and mix fresh, but the fixer concentrate is as good as the day it got here, clear, no yellowing, fixing film in 3 minutes, I have never in all my photographic years had fixer go off, and that goes for Ilford, tetenal, champion, kodak,or good old Johnsons of Hendon rapid fixer, it just has never happened to me, I store the fixer on a shelf in the darkroom, in the original containers, either 5 liter or 1 liter over the years, it always seems to keep until the last drop,
Richard
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Old 28th July 2018, 05:57 PM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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I have had the slot in my processor go back from time to time over the years and you are right it take a lot of cleaning to remove. I have put this staining down to the build up of silver in the fix separating out and noticed changes in temp have a bearing.
I have just recently pressure washed with a hose attached to the tap the fix slot out and was surprised to see a lot of black bits being flushed out. So I can only assume that even though I clean the slot between fix renewal it builds up unseen.
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Old 28th July 2018, 06:16 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photomi7ch View Post
I have just recently pressure washed with a hose attached to the tap the fix slot out and was surprised to see a lot of black bits being flushed out. So I can only assume that even though I clean the slot between fix renewal it builds up unseen.
Is this a hose with a pressure attachment on the end, Mitch? I use the hose that attaches to the bottom of the washer slot to fill it up but only to flush out what remains of the black deposit after bleaching and a scrub down the sides and bottom of the slot with a long-handled bottle brush.

I don't think that the pressure from my tap would be good enough without some kind of constriction at the end to make the water like a thin high pressure jet but I don't know what's available. If this works without the long bleach soak and bottle brush then it sounds worthwhile.

Thanks

Mike
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Old 28th July 2018, 07:29 PM
MikeHeller MikeHeller is offline
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I didn't smell my fixer before chucking although it would have to be pretty strong for me to smell it. Too much time bending over dogfish preserved in formalin has not helped my taste/smell buds!!

Interesting comments on keeping fixer. I think I shall make use of my Tetenal Protectan or decant into smaller containers so that I can take advantage of buying larger quantities with more confidence in future.
Mike
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Old 29th July 2018, 08:34 AM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Is this a hose with a pressure attachment on the end, Mitch? I use the hose that attaches to the bottom of the washer slot to fill it up but only to flush out what remains of the black deposit after bleaching and a scrub down the sides and bottom of the slot with a long-handled bottle brush.

I don't think that the pressure from my tap would be good enough without some kind of constriction at the end to make the water like a thin high pressure jet but I don't know what's available. If this works without the long bleach soak and bottle brush then it sounds worthwhile.

Thanks

Mike
You have described Mike the process that I go through when cleaning the slots out. This is the first time I have gone down the hose route with as you say an attachment to create extra pressure. In this case I used the garden hose that has a twist grip that changes the force and style of the water jet.
I have used this method for non photograph related items producing very good results. So I thought it may be worth doing for the processor but was not expecting to find so much clag being forced out from all of the slots.
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