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  #11  
Old 11th May 2020, 08:42 AM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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I use the new concertina bottles which can be ordered from AG. They are very different from the older ones. The ltr bottles will not compress much below 500mls because they are of a thicker plastic.

All my bottles are marked for certain chemicals so there is no chance of contamination.

You do have to keep an eye on them to make sure the lids are tight and have worked well over the years.

The thing with storing chemicals is that you have to find a method that you are confident with. When in doubt try it out for yourself.
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  #12  
Old 11th May 2020, 08:55 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Bargain Basement replacement seals

With most of the pound shops closed at the moment you may have difficulty in getting the silicon you need. As a suggestion and don't laugh but I have successfully replaced seals with discs of butyl rubber cut from old lorry inner tubes. Tyre outlets will give you a whole used one for nothing. The rubber is about 1.5mm thick which is more than adequate.

Cut it into manageable sections wash what you need thoroughly then cut discs slightly larger than the inside of the caps. They compress well and will provide a completely airtight seal - all for nothing.

Some of the colour chemical bottles that the stock solutions come in only have a thin heat applied seal which do not work properly afterwards, no matter how tight you screw the cap on. These home made seals work perfectly.
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  #13  
Old 11th May 2020, 09:06 AM
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With most of the pound shops closed at the moment you may have difficulty in getting the silicon you need. As a suggestion and don't laugh but I have successfully replaced seals with discs of butyl rubber cut from old lorry inner tubes. Tyre outlets will give you a whole used one for nothing. The rubber is about 1.5mm thick which is more than adequate.

Cut it into manageable sections wash what you need thoroughly then cut discs slightly larger than the inside of the caps. They compress well and will provide a completely airtight seal - all for nothing.

Some of the colour chemical bottles that the stock solutions come in only have a thin heat applied seal which do not work properly afterwards, no matter how tight you screw the cap on. These home made seals work perfectly.

Like it. will keep it in mind. Thanks John
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Old 11th May 2020, 02:04 PM
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Well, to be fair, lots of people use plastic bottles for stock developer without issues, but the problem with plastic is that there are many kinds and some are (very) slightly porous to oxygen. Glass has the advantage that you know for sure it will not pass oxygen (although you then have to worry about the material of the plastic stopper and it's sealing material ).

Assuming you are buying a liquid ready-made B&W developer, just leave the stock solution in the manufacturer's bottle and either (a) use it all within the manufacturer's recommended time for an opened bottle once you have started to use it or (b) invest in some Tetenal Protectan or (c) use Rodinal, which has legendary keeping qualities...
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  #15  
Old 12th May 2020, 11:58 AM
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...or (b) invest in some Tetenal Protectan...
Or better still buy a can or two of this, like I have mentioned in previous posts.

It's a LOT cheaper and definitely does the job and seems to be lasting just as long so far.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223973714...m=223973714970

Terry S
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  #16  
Old 12th May 2020, 01:31 PM
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Or better still buy a can or two of this, like I have mentioned in previous posts.

It's a LOT cheaper and definitely does the job and seems to be lasting just as long so far.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223973714...m=223973714970

Terry S
Do let us know how you get on. Based entirely on theory not experience, I believe these may work out very expensive in the long term - tho even at twice the price I would buy them over Protectan as argon has the very big advantage over butane of being essentially inert (and heavier IIRC [edit: IR(in)C.>. Turns out Butane is much heavier!].

I did buy one of these several months ago with the intention of testing how much gas is in there (a simple case of weighing a can before use and again when empty) but have not got around to it yet, and it still sits on a shelf...

My logic is that whilst the argon is under pressure in those cans, it is not liquefied. A can of liquefied argon has a volume of >800 times the liquid when squirted out as a gas. Butane (used in Protectan) liquefies at much lower pressure (and a gas to liquid ratio of 250:1) which is why you can put liquefied butane in a thin metal can but liquefied argon requires a canister capable of withstanding >48 atm (as used in welding).

It is not clear how much compression has been achieved in those cans so it will be interesting to see how much gas is actually in there in practice.

Last edited by Bob; 14th May 2020 at 05:37 PM.
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  #17  
Old 13th May 2020, 07:33 AM
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Well, to be fair, lots of people use plastic bottles for stock developer without issues, but the problem with plastic is that there are many kinds and some are (very) slightly porous to oxygen. Glass has the advantage that you know for sure it will not pass oxygen (although you then have to worry about the material of the plastic stopper and it's sealing material ). .
There are two types of cap supplied by one of the main glass bottle outlets - Ampula. There is the type which has the security - anti kids top where you have to compress and turn the cap at the same time, these are not 100% air tight, perhaps 99.5%.

The others are plain plastic with a neoprene insert inside and these are 100% airtight. When I make up developer for C41 I fill the bottles up to the stated capacity and then - microwave - (yes really!) them for a short time 30 seconds will be enough for a 150cc bottle. I then fit the cap and screw it down.

The liquid inside will have expanded and as it cools down it will form a semi vacuum inside. You will know if it has worked because when you open the bottle there will be a short sharp hiss as the vacuum is released. I have kept C41 Dev this way, pre mixed for over 6 months. For some reason after this, the screw caps become very tight - incredibly tight and you will need some sort of grip to unscrew them.

Last edited by John King; 13th May 2020 at 07:37 AM.
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  #18  
Old 13th May 2020, 11:48 AM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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There are two types of cap supplied by one of the main glass bottle outlets - Ampula. There is the type which has the security - anti kids top where you have to compress and turn the cap at the same time, these are not 100% air tight, perhaps 99.5%.

The others are plain plastic with a neoprene insert inside and these are 100% airtight.
I ordered various bottles from Ampula yesterday, as my previous stockist is not taking any new orders as there has been such a rush of bottle orders for filling with hand sanitisers and the like. Then going over to Ampula, although I was able to make substitutes, they too had no stock of my preferred items, so I had to get some glass bottles as well.

But, back to the subject in question, which is the bottle tops.

Now if I've got this right John, there is a third type of bottle top, which I will get with my bottles, which is called a 'Polycone screw top'. It is described as a '...white screw top R3 Polycone cap. The cap liner forms a tight leakproof seal, once screwed into place. Perfect for the healthcare and chemical industry.'

https://www.ampulla.co.uk/Shop-For-G...-169-196-3950/

I just love it that I normally learn something new every time I read the posts on this forum.

Terry S
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  #19  
Old 13th May 2020, 12:29 PM
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Yes it is the polycone type of top. It is a semi ridged polythene seal and yes it seals perfectly. probably the best there is available to us common folk!
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  #20  
Old 13th May 2020, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
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... there will be a short sharp hiss as the vacuum is released. I have kept C41 Dev this way, pre mixed for over 6 months. For some reason after this, the screw caps become very tight - incredibly tight and you will need some sort of grip to unscrew them.
That seems an excellent way to be sure the seal is still good! And a useful tip about them becoming tighter over time. I wonder if that is the dissolved oxygen binding to the sulphite preservative (or something similar) reducing the volume further? Any chemists in the house?

Cheers.
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