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  #1  
Old 3rd November 2011, 09:18 PM
Ian C Ian C is offline
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Default What am I doing wrong with my Durst M605?

Hi,

I have a Durst M605 colour and I have 3 enlarger lenses. I have been trying to decide which to keep and which to sell. My preferance is the NIkon 50mm f2.8N. However it, and the Schneider Componon-s, share the same problem, which the Durst Neonon doesn't. Which is, that with an Ilford under lens filter kit attached, focus is impossible with the enlarger head much above half mast. There is insufficient upward movement left in the focus system. I am on my second M605 and it's just the same. I am using the recessed lens board appropriate for 50mm. I don't want to use the colour head, I've tested the differance and the images are clearer with the Ilford kit.

Is this normal? If it is I'll be keeping the Neonon.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers Ian
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  #2  
Old 3rd November 2011, 11:09 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Ian, I too have a M605 and use the EL Nikkor 50mm f2.8 which I assume is the same as the Nikon you quote. I do use the dichoric head and to date have not seen a problem but assuming my set up is the same as yours I am not experiencing images as clear as I would with an under the lens filters set

So yes, your experience is worrying because EL Nikkor lens users are apparently between a rock and a hard place.

I have to say that this is the first time I have heard of this problem with the M605 using an EL Nikkor and a dichroic head or the assertion that there is better clarity with under the lens filters but insufficient movement to get accurate focus.

It just strikes me that if the problem you describe was generic to the El Nikkor and the M605 then my extensive lurking on analogue sites would have revealed other similar complaints.

It is my experience that the bellows do need to be tight with the EL Nikkor to get sharp focus but assuming my grain focuser is working correctly I have never failed to get sharp focus ie. it can be tightened sufficiently.

I have assumed throughout that "images clearer" refers to sharp focus.

Could it be that the tightness of the bellows means that unless your screw that holds the knob that tightens the bellows is quite tight the bellows open up in the time between focussing and then placing the paper into the easel. Certainly I found that I had to tighten the screw
to get the bellows to remain in place. If your focussing knob can be moved very easily then I'd try tightening the screw

Mind you this would apply to the above irrespective of using either the dichroic head or under the lens filters.

So in summary I have difficulty believing that the El Nikkor lens can be at fault so No, I'd conclude, it isn't normal and I think we have to look elsewhere for answers to your problem.

Hopefully the combined efforts of FADU will help you get the answer.

Mike
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Old 4th November 2011, 06:44 AM
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I too have an M605K that I use with a Nikon f2.8 50 mm N lens and have never had any problems achieving focus even using the extension arm to get larger images. I am using the recessed lens board. I have never tried the under lens filters with this enlarger so cannot comment on their use.

If you have the under lens filter holder held in place by the lens I wonder if the thickness of the holder is throwing the focus off? Can you focus with the Nikon and Schneider lenses fitted without the under lens filter holder?

Bill
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Old 4th November 2011, 07:14 AM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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I started with a Durst 707 and well remember experiencing a focus problem that turned out to movement much as Mike described, which tightening the friction screws cured. Your case seems more like an assembly problem to me, for the use of under-lens filters should not affect the focus. I'm also puzzled by your comment that "the images are clearer with the Ilford kit." Do you mean that they are sharper or that the contrast is better?
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Old 4th November 2011, 08:13 AM
Ian C Ian C is offline
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Thanks for replies.

To be clearer:

I can focus without the ilford kit, but the bellows are super tight at larger magnifications.

The three legged thingamy for the ilford kit is held on by the lens, so displacing the lens down by the thickness of the plastic 3mm or so. That is correct to my knowledge.

Mike : Yes i agree, my extensive ggogling on the subject has brought up nothing - hence my post.

I use a grain focusser. The M605 i use is in really good condition and all knobs and buttons do work really well. It's not that it goes out of focus, i can't get focus in the first place.

"Clearer" - means the first time i made a comparison i wondered whether i had focussed properly using the color head, so repeated the test but the result was the same. Meaning the image is no where near as sharp. The contrast is a different question, to be fair I haven't gone to the trouble of calibrating the enlarger. I assume the contrast could be matched. It's Counterintuitive i know. It was one of the reasons i bought a new 605 because the color head on the previous one was unusable and I wanted the "theoretical" advantages of getting away from the filter kit. I think the light must be more diffuse using the dichrotic filters. I don't have full knowledge of the innards of the head but the results of my test were very clear to the naked eye, even when waved in front of somebody bored by such things.

Thanks again. All input is really appreciated.

I'm probably away now for weekend.

Cheers

Ian
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Old 4th November 2011, 08:53 AM
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vanannan vanannan is offline
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3 legged filter thingy on multigrade filter holder is a pain, my solution is to take a Cokin A filter holder, cut the filter slots away with a hacksaw, sand cut surface to tidy up and key for glue then glue to bottom of multigrade filter holder, use appropriate cokin filter holder attachment ring to attach holder to enl. lens (you may also need a step up ring), see photos.
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Hope this helps.
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  #7  
Old 4th November 2011, 08:55 AM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian C View Post
Thanks for replies.

To be clearer:

I can focus without the ilford kit, but the bellows are super tight at larger magnifications.

The three legged thingamy for the ilford kit is held on by the lens, so displacing the lens down by the thickness of the plastic 3mm or so. That is correct to my knowledge.

Mike : Yes i agree, my extensive ggogling on the subject has brought up nothing - hence my post.

I use a grain focusser. The M605 i use is in really good condition and all knobs and buttons do work really well. It's not that it goes out of focus, i can't get focus in the first place.

"Clearer" - means the first time i made a comparison i wondered whether i had focussed properly using the color head, so repeated the test but the result was the same. Meaning the image is no where near as sharp. The contrast is a different question, to be fair I haven't gone to the trouble of calibrating the enlarger. I assume the contrast could be matched. It's Counterintuitive i know. It was one of the reasons i bought a new 605 because the color head on the previous one was unusable and I wanted the "theoretical" advantages of getting away from the filter kit. I think the light must be more diffuse using the dichrotic filters. I don't have full knowledge of the innards of the head but the results of my test were very clear to the naked eye, even when waved in front of somebody bored by such things.

Thanks again. All input is really appreciated.

I'm probably away now for weekend.

Cheers

Ian
Since the light is mixed in the a colour head before it goes through the negative I fail to see how it can have any bearing on sharpness of the projected image; any change must be due to some other factor. But I willing to be educated on this point.
The 3mm spacer you mention may very well be the source of your focusing problems, I suggest that you remove it and see if you can achieve focus with all three lenses without it before going any further.
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Old 4th November 2011, 09:40 AM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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Your discription of not being able to move the bellows because there is no more ajustment sound like it is the wrong lens for the format of negative being used.

I maybe completely wrong but that is how your discription comes across.
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Old 4th November 2011, 12:39 PM
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Stupid question but it has got to be asked. You have got the recessed lens board with the recess going into the bellows and not pointing down? I had a friend (a Professional BTW) who could not focus and he had the lens board the wrong way round.

It does happen.

Bill
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  #10  
Old 4th November 2011, 04:32 PM
Peter S Peter S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Stupid question but it has got to be asked. You have got the recessed lens board with the recess going into the bellows and not pointing down? I had a friend (a Professional BTW) who could not focus and he had the lens board the wrong way round.

It does happen.

Bill
The same thing has happened to me with my Kaiser enlarger, there was much scratching of head and worry before the light sharpened.
Peter
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