Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Alternative Processes > Contact printing

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th December 2008, 09:43 AM
PaulG's Avatar
PaulG PaulG is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 332
Default Ethics

For want of a better expression, is there a particular ethos attached to contact printing?

I'd be interested to know how much time/manipulation people use in producing contacts. If it works for an enlarged print, is it fair game or is there a point where the 'purity' of a contact print is lost?

Just pondering after an evening in the darkroom that yielded some not entirely satisfactory results.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10th December 2008, 10:38 AM
B&W Neil's Avatar
B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: West Cornwall
Posts: 4,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
For want of a better expression, is there a particular ethos attached to contact printing?

I'd be interested to know how much time/manipulation people use in producing contacts. If it works for an enlarged print, is it fair game or is there a point where the 'purity' of a contact print is lost?

Just pondering after an evening in the darkroom that yielded some not entirely satisfactory results.
Hi,

First question: as long as it takes for me, mind that goes for all types of printing not just contacts. Often it takes a long time to get what I want!

Second question: I think not - contacts have a charm of their own and I approach them differently seeking out subjects that will work well at small size (4x5). In fact quite a different approach to negs I am planning to enlarge.

Ponder factor: just use your experience of last night to move foward as these things are never easy. Even when you think you have cracked it something can still crop up and cause you problems.

Neil.
__________________
"The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance." Aristotle

Neil Souch
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10th December 2008, 10:53 AM
Trevor Crone's Avatar
Trevor Crone Trevor Crone is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
For want of a better expression, is there a particular ethos attached to contact printing?

I'd be interested to know how much time/manipulation people use in producing contacts. If it works for an enlarged print, is it fair game or is there a point where the 'purity' of a contact print is lost?

Just pondering after an evening in the darkroom that yielded some not entirely satisfactory results.
Like what Neil said, contact prints have a certain charm. They resonate a different emotion to what I get when looking at my projection prints. It's like listening to different types of music. Being small (4x5) they draw you in, you have to get closer to appreciate the delicate details.

Usually I find them much easier to print with perhaps the odd burning in of the sky. I print on normal graded and VC papers plus I produce palladium/platinum prints which usually don't need any manipulation of the image. They have a much softer and longer scale then when printing on silver based papers.
__________________
"To the attentive eye, each moment of the year has its own beauty, and in the same field, it beholds, every hour, a picture which was never seen before, and which will never be seen again" Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Timespresent
Arenaphotographers
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10th December 2008, 01:29 PM
RH Designs's Avatar
RH Designs RH Designs is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Crone View Post
Like what Neil said, contact prints have a certain charm. They resonate a different emotion to what I get when looking at my projection prints. It's like listening to different types of music. Being small (4x5) they draw you in, you have to get closer to appreciate the delicate details.
Trevor, do you think that a 4x5 contact print would look different to a 4x5 print made with the enlarger (assuming all other things, like contrast, neg format etc., equal)? Is it the technique itself that changes the resonance, or purely a matter of print size? Enlarger lens flare and other factors will have some effect when making a projection print, but I'm wondering, if they are tuned out to as far as possible match the contact print, there would still be a noticeable difference? Having never made any contact prints, I'm just interested.
__________________
Regards,
Richard

RH Designs darkroom equipment : dalesphoto.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10th December 2008, 01:39 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,322
Default

I don’t think it’s a question of ethics, more one of practicality. As I don’t do reality, I neither expect or require my finished work to resemble the original scene. In fact I would be disappointed if it did.
I have to separate 5x4 from 10x8 in order to reply further. With the larger negative size normal dodging and burning techniques are quite feasible and I would expect to use them to move the tones where I want them to be. With the smaller size this is less easy, although still possible.

Once one leaves the silver gelatine processes behind however it changes and becomes less feasible. Waving ones hands about under an ultraviolet lamp for 20 minutes whilst exposing a cyanotype print for example is not to be recommended.
__________________
Regards
Dave
www.davids.org.uk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10th December 2008, 02:06 PM
Trevor Crone's Avatar
Trevor Crone Trevor Crone is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
Trevor, do you think that a 4x5 contact print would look different to a 4x5 print made with the enlarger (assuming all other things, like contrast, neg format etc., equal)? Is it the technique itself that changes the resonance, or purely a matter of print size? Enlarger lens flare and other factors will have some effect when making a projection print, but I'm wondering, if they are tuned out to as far as possible match the contact print, there would still be a noticeable difference? Having never made any contact prints, I'm just interested.
Richard, I think it's probably subjective for I've never done a side by side 4x5 contact print vs. 4x5 enlarger print. However I do get a different feeling from my contact prints then I do from my projection (enlarged) images. I think the enlarger light train and optics of the enlarger lens may have a part to play in this. My 4x5 contact prints (I haven't got an 8x10 enlarger so I can't compare these) do seem to have a smoother tonality grade for grade over projected (enlarged) prints. It's certainly not a quantum leap but something very subtle. Needs further investigation.
__________________
"To the attentive eye, each moment of the year has its own beauty, and in the same field, it beholds, every hour, a picture which was never seen before, and which will never be seen again" Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Timespresent
Arenaphotographers
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10th December 2008, 02:43 PM
RH Designs's Avatar
RH Designs RH Designs is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Crone View Post
My 4x5 contact prints (I haven't got an 8x10 enlarger so I can't compare these) do seem to have a smoother tonality grade for grade over projected (enlarged) prints.
This is probably due to a small change in contrast caused as you suggest by the flare in the enlarger optics. These effects are indeed subtle but my gut feeling is they can be tuned out (at least with VC paper) by tweaking the filtration. You're right, it does need further investigation, but unfortunately I haven't anything larger than a 6x7 neg to investigate - nor do I have an LF enlarger. I wonder if a small contrast increase (maybe 0.1 or 0.2 grade) on the enlarged print might result in a similar tonality to the contact?

I remember Les McLean and I doing something similar when comparing his Zone VI cold light enlarger to my LPL colour one to investigate the old argument about whether cold light is "better", as is claimed by some. I found I could exactly match the print (from my negative) from the Zone VI by tweaking the filtration on the LPL. Les will tell you mine wasn't as good, but I could see no difference. I'll now take cover while Les prepares his reply
__________________
Regards,
Richard

RH Designs darkroom equipment : dalesphoto.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10th December 2008, 03:28 PM
Trevor Crone's Avatar
Trevor Crone Trevor Crone is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
SNIP; I wonder if a small contrast increase (maybe 0.1 or 0.2 grade) on the enlarged print might result in a similar tonality to the contact?
That's crafty, you must have known that my Multigrade 500 control panel only allows 1/2 grade increments I shall have to consider investing in one of your Stop Clock 500 units sometime
__________________
"To the attentive eye, each moment of the year has its own beauty, and in the same field, it beholds, every hour, a picture which was never seen before, and which will never be seen again" Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Timespresent
Arenaphotographers
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10th December 2008, 04:03 PM
RH Designs's Avatar
RH Designs RH Designs is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Crone View Post
That's crafty, you must have known that my Multigrade 500 control panel only allows 1/2 grade increments I shall have to consider investing in one of your Stop Clock 500 units sometime
Aha! Well no, I didn't know you were using a MG500. I prefer a continuous contrast control either using a colour head (which I normally do) or split-grading. The StopClock 500 will give you 0.1 grade increments in fine mode (0.5 grade otherwise). I'm currently calibrating the split grade mode of a standard StopClock using the colour head filters, which is a bit tedious and drifting off the topic of this thread. If there's anything interesting to say about it afterwards I'll start a new thread .
__________________
Regards,
Richard

RH Designs darkroom equipment : dalesphoto.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10th December 2008, 06:34 PM
Les McLean's Avatar
Les McLean Les McLean is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Northumberland
Posts: 383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
?

I remember Les McLean and I doing something similar when comparing his Zone VI cold light enlarger to my LPL colour one to investigate the old argument about whether cold light is "better", as is claimed by some. I found I could exactly match the print (from my negative) from the Zone VI by tweaking the filtration on the LPL. Les will tell you mine wasn't as good, but I could see no difference. I'll now take cover while Les prepares his reply

Ross, I was always suspicious of your eye, particularly the right one.

On a serious note I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the "purity" approach of a contact print. Regardless of whether it's a contact or enlarged print I believe that we should do all that we can to put the best possible interpretation on to the paper. If that includes burning and dodging a contact print then so be it. Interesting comments made here relating to enlarger lens flare and all that stuff which may have a bearing on any differences that show. Perhaps Richard should pay a visit to the borders and we could make some comparisions between contact prints and enlarged prints of the same size using both LPL diffusion and Cold Cathode enlargers. We could also muder a very nice bottle of single malt I have just waiting for his visit. Obviously we drink the malt after all judgements have been made and agreed.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.