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  #11  
Old 13th January 2017, 08:59 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Xp2

I wonder why Ilford chose not to use a 'normal' coloured mask for XP2 instead of what amounts to one that is quite dark and doesn't quite 'look' quite right. They may have their technical reasons, but I have found it far easier to get a good B+W print in the darkroom with CN400 than I can with XP2.

If anyone else prints RA4 at home, try printing a normal B&W negative with a blank piece of colour film on top of the carrier you will see what I mean. With Kodak T Max which has a virtually clear film base, there is very little filtration change needed.

I cannot get a perfectly pure black and white similar to Multigrade without introducing a colour cast, but what I do get is a warm tone print, with good contrast. They are warmer than a Chloro-bromide print, but not as warm as a sepia toned image.

Another advantage is you can print both colour and B&W in the same session with the same chemicals.

Last edited by John King; 13th January 2017 at 09:02 AM.
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  #12  
Old 28th January 2017, 11:09 AM
ShaunH ShaunH is offline
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I always found way back that Ilford XP2 produced a very grey, flat print with little in the way of guts or punch. Even printing onto Grade four Agfa Record Rapid the result never looked quite right. Printing onto a hard grade resin coated paper made up for things but I stayed away from that film because I was always disappointed.
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  #13  
Old 28th January 2017, 11:31 AM
John King John King is offline
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That is pretty well much the same as printing a colour negative onto B&W paper but perhaps a tad more extreme.
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  #14  
Old 28th January 2017, 01:04 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
I wonder why Ilford chose not to use a 'normal' coloured mask for XP2 instead of what amounts to one that is quite dark and doesn't quite 'look' quite right. They may have their technical reasons, but I have found it far easier to get a good B+W print in the darkroom with CN400 than I can with XP2.
This is because it's harder to print with a normal colour mask. I never had problems printing with XP1/2 negatives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunH View Post
I always found way back that Ilford XP2 produced a very grey, flat print with little in the way of guts or punch. Even printing onto Grade four Agfa Record Rapid the result never looked quite right. Printing onto a hard grade resin coated paper made up for things but I stayed away from that film because I was always disappointed.
XP2 does have a long flat curve so a very long tonal range. I was mostly push processing, this was something Ilford had given details for with XP1 which used a non standard C41 development time anyway.

Labs didn't like XP1 because it was non standard processing so Ilford brought out XP2 which used the standard C41 dev time, they stopped giving push process details as labs didn't want to do this.

In the early 1980's I had a working lunch with 2 senior Ilford executives and a research chemist in Alderley Edge and we discussed push processing XP2, they explained why they'd dropped any mention in data sheets- wanting 100% compatibility with C41 process lines.

Like all B&W film processing there's no reason why you can't increase development slightly to boost negative contrast if you're processing XP2 yourself.

Ian
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  #15  
Old 28th January 2017, 05:29 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Just to say I have only tried XP2 twice, having it developed at a local Snappy Snaps. It did print very easily for me onto RC Ilford MG paper.

Terry S
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  #16  
Old 28th January 2017, 05:47 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default XP2 Film

I only have one strip of XP2 negatives and have tried all afternoon to get a decent print on RA4 paper and failed miserably! I used my standard filtration to start off (80m +55Y) and that produced a print that was quite an intense green.

So I reduced the green by removing 30 units of Magenta - still too green then another 30 by which time the green was now a yellowish green. I increased the yellow filter by 10 units and got rid of that tint but was back to the green. I removed the final 20 units of Magenta and the print was - still green. very slight, but quite noticable in the shadows.

My final filtration was 0 magenta and 65 yellow, I had to admit defeat because I had no more magenta to remove.

I scanned the negative and it was OK, so digi does have it's uses sometimes.
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  #17  
Old 28th January 2017, 06:12 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Why on earth are you printing XP2 on RA-4 paper ?

Kodak CN400 is specifically designed for RA-4, for home use XP1 then XP2 are definitely not they are meant to printed on conventional B&W papers. Minilabs can add the necessary filtration to print XP2 on RA-4, and it's simple with Digital minilabs.

Ian
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  #18  
Old 28th January 2017, 06:16 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Default The orange base

Colour negative film based on the Kodak system (which differs from Gevaert, Agfa and Orwo) is that the cyan coupler in the emulsion undergoes a colour change on development.
In order to produce a colour print with neutral grey highlights and shadows the H&D curves of the three processed emulsion layers must precisely overlay one-another. Otherwise the curves will cross and cause 'casts' that cannot be filtered out.
The problem was/is that typical cyan couplers absorb quite a lot of the blue light that they are supposed to pass, so the inherent contrast of the cyan dye layer, even after sideways adjustments with filters, doesn't match the other two. The answer was masking - the couplers that will form cyan dye on development start with the familiar yellow-orange hue in the shadows but become cyan as density climbs.
So unexposed but processed colour negative film, bound with the negative to be printed, may reduce the amount of M and Y filtration required but will not correct 'crossed curves'.
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  #19  
Old 28th January 2017, 06:59 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Printin on RA4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostlabours View Post
Why on earth are you printing XP2 on RA-4 paper ?

Kodak CN400 is specifically designed for RA-4, for home use XP1 then XP2 are definitely not they are meant to printed on conventional B&W papers. Minilabs can add the necessary filtration to print XP2 on RA-4, and it's simple with Digital minilabs.

Ian
Quite simply because XP2 will not print on normal B&W without heavy filtration to increase the contrast. (see the post earlier today). If you increase the contrast you loose tones and it is just not worth it.

XP2, which I never have liked can be printed on RA4, just as it is/was done in minilabs. I have been printing RA4 for nearly 27 years and this is the 1st time that I have not been successful. I was only doing test prints to see what degree of filtration would be required so there is nothing lost really. It has only reinforced my dislike of the film. If it was manufactured without the base colour then it would be quite easy.

I have printed CN400 on RA4 paper without any difficuties and managed to get a true B&W image.

Agfa sold a version of chromogenic film in the 80's which had a definite green base as opposed to orange or magenta and this was a different matter, I only used it once then it went off the market but this was before I started RA4 printing.

I have also printed normal silver B&W on RA4 using a piece of unexposed, but bleached and fixed film C41 film on top of the negative carrier to give the correct colour to print normally. I have not yet quite managed to get a pure B&W image, but have got one which is a beautiful warm tone; slightly warmer than the old Kodak Bromesko and is very easy on the eye.
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  #20  
Old 30th January 2017, 02:33 PM
ShaunH ShaunH is offline
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Oh my word, I remember when I used to print onto Kodak Royal Bromesko paper back in the seventies. I absolutely love warm toned papers but sadly with the demise of cadmium in the emulsion and various other goodies we no longer appear to have such stunning papers. A definite loss when compared to today's papers.
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