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  #1  
Old 2nd July 2013, 06:16 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Default grade 5 printing

In the Summer of 1984 I was walking up Cader Idris with my wife, two sons and an OM1 camera loaded with Agfapan 100.The sun was bright and big fast-moving clouds were casting dramatic shadows over the land. As we crested a ridge a large pale grey boulder in front of us was lit up by the sun, and the mountain, in deep shadow, loomed behind it. I quickly took a picture before the light changed.
Back home, after developing the film in Rodinal, I discovered that I hadn't given enough exposure. The mountain was almost clear film. I needed to go to a grade 5 filter to make a decent print.
Why am I writing about this now? Well, I've just found this half-forgotten print, done on glossy RC paper, and am very favourably struck by how dramatic it is, and how much more striking than lots of other more "sophisticated" prints I have done since on selenium toned fibre paper from "correctly" processed grade 3 negatives.
So I want to do some more, and am asking for advice. Should I perhaps bracket, to get an almost underexposed negative? Then reduce development to keep the contrast down? I'm wondering about using a weak developer and developing to finality, in order to gain some control over the amount of under-development.
Any ideas or suggestions?

Alan
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Old 2nd July 2013, 07:10 PM
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I would have thoght that if you started with a 'perfect' negative then you can pretty well create any kind of print you want in the darkroom. Using a hard paper, a bit of dodging and the apropriate developer to give you the result your looking for in the final print.
I don't think you should restrict yourself to one performance by trying to do it all in the neg.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 07:23 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Thanks for that. I will begin by experimenting with a few "normal" negatives.

Alan
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Old 3rd July 2013, 08:33 AM
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David Lingham David Lingham is offline
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Alan

By underexposing you kept the mid and hi light tones open and full of detail, which was further enhanced by the separation a Grade 5 paper would have given them. Graded paper always had better shadow separation and tonality than VC papers as well. Even with split grading I've never been able to fully replicate a Grade 5 paper.
I can agree with your observations about older prints having more impact.
The look that a print has and styles of printing do go in and out of vogue over time. Through the 80's and 90's I used and lot of HIE and made quite hard looking prints that were acceptable at the time. Viewing them now they look far to harsh for my taste these days. I do sense there has been a move towards more tonality in recent years, or have I just mellowed with age.

On APUG there is a lot of info regarding altering the tone curve of Rodinal ie. times, agitation, speeds etc.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 08:55 AM
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Alan

Just reread your post and noticed you used a G5 filter on VC paper not a G5 graded paper as I mistakenly assumed. That has pretty much made most of my earlier post redundant.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
In the Summer of 1984 I was walking up Cader Idris with my wife, two sons and an OM1 camera loaded with Agfapan 100.The sun was bright and big fast-moving clouds were casting dramatic shadows over the land. As we crested a ridge a large pale grey boulder in front of us was lit up by the sun, and the mountain, in deep shadow, loomed behind it. I quickly took a picture before the light changed.
Back home, after developing the film in Rodinal, I discovered that I hadn't given enough exposure. The mountain was almost clear film. I needed to go to a grade 5 filter to make a decent print.
Why am I writing about this now? Well, I've just found this half-forgotten print, done on glossy RC paper, and am very favourably struck by how dramatic it is, and how much more striking than lots of other more "sophisticated" prints I have done since on selenium toned fibre paper from "correctly" processed grade 3 negatives.
So I want to do some more, and am asking for advice. Should I perhaps bracket, to get an almost underexposed negative? Then reduce development to keep the contrast down? I'm wondering about using a weak developer and developing to finality, in order to gain some control over the amount of under-development.
Any ideas or suggestions?

Alan
As your negative was underexposed your deep shadow hit maximum black quickly on the print and I presume you then did some dodging and burning to retain the tonality of the rest of the negative over the harsh scale of Grade 5. Getting this effect with a well exposed / developed negative can be pretty tricky but there is a technique that can help.

For several people that I print for (and often for my own work), they want black blacks but normal tonality and do not like the excessive grain that can result from Grade 5. The technique that I have found that works well for this is:
  • Find an almost clear part of a well exposed/developed negative
  • Do a test strip on this area at Grade 5 to identify the minimum exposure to achieve maximum black
  • Now do a normal test strip at Grade 3 BUT only after you have first exposed the paper to the minimum black time at Grade 5.
  • Do a full sized print at minimum time for maximum black at Grade 5 + the additional time that you have found for Grade 3.

You will find that you now get prints with generally normal contrast/tonality/grain but with significantly beefed up blacks.

Let us know how you get on.

Bests,

David
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  #7  
Old 3rd July 2013, 10:41 AM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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David and David, thank you both. Lots to think about here..I will try the technique you describe so clearly David, and yes, I will let you know how I get on.
I will also re-print the Cader Idris print as I can't now remember what dodging and burning was needed. I feel certain that I went to a grade 5 filter because a print on grade 3 was lacking in contrast. Sorry to be so vague, but it was a long time ago!
David L. Yes,I will look on APUG for more information about Rodinal. But I have the feeling that I recently read on here about someone doing stand development with weak developer and ending up with low contrast negatives This could be a way to go, possibly.
Thanks again for your help.

Alan
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Old 3rd July 2013, 11:25 AM
AlanJones AlanJones is offline
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It is such a shame that we can't all sit around a table and see and talk about these prints. This perhaps would be more meaningful than just reading about this with a better chance of really learning.

Myself, though I have an LPL C7700 enlarger and have both heads, the dichloric one has never been used by me. I stick to the condenser head and only recently I have begun to think I may be missing out as a result of too many soft results as of late though I aim for a 'normal' negative.

There is the problem that we are too thinly spaced geographically for this to happen on a regular basis.

Any ideas anyone?
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Old 3rd July 2013, 04:38 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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ALAN: could you scan and post a copy of the picture that you are talking about, to give us a slightly better idea what you are talking about for our replies?

DAVID (Berlin): Is not what you are talking about, a variation of split grade printing? It was written in a very good way, for I have never 'QUITE' got descriptions of the process before but I actually followed yours! So thanks for that.

Terry S
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Old 3rd July 2013, 04:54 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Hello Terry. Can't scan it I'm afraid. It's a 16x 12 inch print, and I only have an A4 scanner. But I'm planning to reprint it, to see what I can learn, and will do a 10 x 8 that I will be able to scan. But I'll need some help posting scans.

Alan
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