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  #11  
Old 30th March 2014, 08:21 AM
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I would like to point out that I am not chasing the proverbial magic bullet, but simply looking for a liquid developer that replicates D-76/ID-11 as a liquid concentrate.

DDX is a rather expensive alternative, but has a good reputation, so I wont rule it out.
I will have a look on Erwin Putts' site and think things through before deciding. Choosing another developer is not something that I take lightly.
Sometimes it would be nice not to have to make a stock solution from packaged powders.

My requirements from a liquid developer is that it should match D-76/ID-11 for speed, sharpness, and graininess or even better.

I can always go back to D-76 if I am not satisfied.
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  #12  
Old 30th March 2014, 08:44 AM
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You'll never go wrong with D76, Keith, unless you're trying to develop Kodachrome. . As a liquid concentrate HRX definitely meets your requirements being slightly finer grained than D76. I would happily use either and have no worries about the results. My testing hasn't been exhaustive by any means but when I developed Delta 100 in Acurol-N and D76 1+1 the extra edge bite of the former was very noticeable in prints. There was a slight increase in grain with Acurol-N. In the link I posted above, Erwin reckons Acurol-N is both shaper and finer grained than Rodinal but I haven't done any testing along those lines.
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  #13  
Old 30th March 2014, 08:52 AM
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A quick correction. I reread Erwin's review again and he said Acurol-N is finer grained and doesn't blow out highlights the way Rodinal can but I think he's saying that Rodinal is sllghtly sharper than Acurol-N.
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  #14  
Old 30th March 2014, 06:17 PM
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From the link to Erwin Putt's site, the HRX is the best of the developers.
Richard J Henry's book' Controls in B&W' showed D-76 1+1 as the best commercial developer for Panatomic-X ahead of HC-110 dilution B, Microdol-X stock and 1+3, Rodinal 1+99 and Beutler's. The surprise being Kodak D-25.

It was a different story with Tri-X though with Beutler's providing the best sharpness, but with coarser grain than most. HC-110 gave the best sharpness of the commercial developers.

Again D-25 was a surprise giving both very fine-grain and high sharpness. Very strange when it is designed to provide extra fine grain. D-76 has always provided a good all round balance of speed, grain and sharpness.

I forward to trying HRX.
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  #15  
Old 6th April 2014, 06:31 AM
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To add further confusion, there are now Spursinn SAM Classic and SAM Velvet developers added to an already bewildering range of products.

http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fine-grain-101-c.asp

Why are they designing so many different film developers?
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  #16  
Old 6th April 2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Tapscott. View Post
To add further confusion, there are now Spursinn SAM Classic and SAM Velvet developers added to an already bewildering range of products.

http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fine-grain-101-c.asp

Why are they designing so many different film developers?
Good morning Keith,

Spur and Spursinn used to have a very close working relationship but no longer. Spur is the company that comes up with the developer and other chemical formulas and Spursinn was a third-party marketing arm that sold some of these under the Spursinn brand. The two companies do not work together now. Spur's newer formulas (or formulae if you prefer) are only available under the Spur label. Since Spur no longer supply Spursinn, the latter's products are either older Spur formulas or are being made for them by another company. If they're being made elsewhere, I've no idea who would be doing that.

With that out of the way, Spur's product line-up is still confusing! I suggested to them a while back that they should simplify their product names to the likes of Spur Fine (fine grain dev), Spur Speed Plus (for pushing), Spur Grain Plus (grain magnifier for those people who like that), etc, but they're sticking with their present line-up. Chemists love their weird number and letter combinations!

There's quite a range of Spur products which is why I'm going to restrict the products I sell, at least initially, to HRX (fine grain developer), Acurol-N (acutance dev), Cool Black (neutral to cold tone print dev), Acurol-P (neutral print dev) and Acurol-W which is a warm tone additive for use with Acurol-P to warm prints up. I think that covers most bases.
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  #17  
Old 7th April 2014, 05:37 AM
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Thanks for explaining this Bruce,
In the mean time, have you any experience of using Ultrafin Liquid? I believe that this was Fay Godwin's favourite film developer.

This description below is from Tetenal's website;

Tetenal Ultrafin liquid
Universal b/w film developer producing an excellent speed yield, fine grain and great resolution.
Dilution variable 1+10 up to 1+30 depending upon required contrast and film emulsion. One-shot developer.
Dilution: 1+10 up to 1+30
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  #18  
Old 7th April 2014, 11:18 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I am still confused. Matt at Ag has just advertised a kind of open day for what he calls Spursinn developers etc but it appears that there has been a disconnect between Spur the makers and Spursinn the marketers and while Spursinn may still have some Spur items they are no longer being supplied by Spur so presumably will have to move to other stuff or disappear.

So I wonder if Matt's use of the word Spursinn simply reflects that he is still using the old notation but he really means that it is a Spur open day?

I'd hope so otherwise Ag won't have the latest items from Spur or not for much longer. I must admit that it seems likely that Matt's relationship is with Spur so all is well but clarification would be useful.

I wonder do I need to start another thread called Spur and Spursinn Changes so we can get to the bottom of things.

Mike
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  #19  
Old 7th April 2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
I am still confused. Matt at Ag has just advertised a kind of open day for what he calls Spursinn developers etc but it appears that there has been a disconnect between Spur the makers and Spursinn the marketers and while Spursinn may still have some Spur items they are no longer being supplied by Spur so presumably will have to move to other stuff or disappear.

So I wonder if Matt's use of the word Spursinn simply reflects that he is still using the old notation but he really means that it is a Spur open day?

I'd hope so otherwise Ag won't have the latest items from Spur or not for much longer. I must admit that it seems likely that Matt's relationship is with Spur so all is well but clarification would be useful.

I wonder do I need to start another thread called Spur and Spursinn Changes so we can get to the bottom of things.

Mike
Mike,
As far as I'm aware, there are no Spur dealers in the UK: I'll be the first. Therefore, AG's reference to Spursinn would be exactly that - Spursinn products which might be a mix of older Spur chemicals plus anything they've had made for them by another company. It's not a Spur open day. Please don't read this as me suggesting there's anything wrong with Spursinn products. I've never tried them so can't comment but I'm sure they'll be perfectly OK. Does it matter that they might not have the most up to date Spur chemicals? Well, D76 isn't exactly new and there's nothing wrong with that!

Just to re-emphasise, AG are stocking Spursinn and not Spur products. Given the relationship between the two companies now I think it's highly unlikely that Spursinn will ever be able to offer Spur products in future.

In answer to Keith's question, I've never tried Ultrafin.
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  #20  
Old 7th April 2014, 04:29 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Mike,
As far as I'm aware, there are no Spur dealers in the UK: I'll be the first. Therefore, AG's reference to Spursinn would be exactly that - Spursinn products which might be a mix of older Spur chemicals plus anything they've had made for them by another company. It's not a Spur open day. Please don't read this as me suggesting there's anything wrong with Spursinn products. I've never tried them so can't comment but I'm sure they'll be perfectly OK. Does it matter that they might not have the most up to date Spur chemicals?

Just to re-emphasise, AG are stocking Spursinn and not Spur products. Given the relationship between the two companies now I think it's highly unlikely that Spursinn will ever be able to offer Spur products in future.
Thanks Bruce. It might well matter to Matt and customers if Spursinn HCD-2 and S were/are in fact Spur products and will dry up once present stock is exhausted.

Are they Spur products or are they products made by someone else for Spursinn as I assume the two SAM products mentioned are?

I am not trying to appear to be geriatrically confused on purpose but looking at the two sites of Spur and Spursinn and even with your explanation, it is difficult to work out what comes from where and what will cease to be offered by Spursinn.They are not the easiest of sites to navigate

In other words there are presumably a set of products exclusive to Spur, a set of products exclusive to Spursinn( e.g. SAM developers ) and a set of products that either party may still sell but which will cease to be sold by Spursinn if these are Spur products.

Anyone care to draw up these 3 lists. I need to lie down in darkened room

Mike
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