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  #51  
Old 26th September 2020, 03:04 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Originally Posted by billcowan View Post
Chromogenic films are silver based ( aren't all films?); the development prepares the film to have the colour dyes replace the silver as the process proceeds.
I'm still not sure Bill, even after reading the Ilford PDF's about the film, where it says:

Film contrast
XP2 SUPER negatives have a dye image. Unlike the conventional black and white negative image, which is made up of silver...


And as for processing in b/w chemicals, Ilford say:

Conventional processing
We do not recommend conventional black and white processing for use with XP2 SUPER film since advantages such as grain free images and scanning with ICE will be lost. However, users have reported that a good quality image may be obtained using conventional black and white chemistry.

I am surprised though, that Ilford still recommend squeegees, that so many of various forum members warn against using:

Drying
To avoid drying marks, use a clean squeegee or chamois cloth to wipe XP2 SUPER film before hanging it to dry.

Terry S
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  #52  
Old 26th September 2020, 03:24 PM
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billcowan billcowan is offline
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You have read the fact sheet so just to point out.
XP2 SUPER is a chromogenic film. This means that the dyes which make up the image are formed during
development rather than being present in the film or added later.


The C-41 process is the same for all C-41 films, although different manufacturers' processing chemistries vary slightly.

After exposure, the film is developed in a "color developer". The developing ingredient is a paraphenylene diamine-based chemical known as CD-4. The developer develops the silver in the emulsion layers. As the silver is developing, oxidized developer reacts with the dye couplers, resulting in formation of dyes. It is the bleach fix or Blix that removes the silver. (and leaves the dye)
Wiki's take on it.
Chromogenic film or paper contains one or many layers of silver halide (AgX) emulsion, along with dye couplers that, in combination with processing chemistry, form visible dyes. In processing, the silver image of each layer is first developed. In concert with the dye couplers in each layer, the process subsequently forms dyes only in those areas where silver is present.
Some chromogenic black-and-white negative films also exist, mainly to exploit the wide availability of C-41 processing. These films have softer grain and less contrast than traditional silver halide films. In these films, a single emulsion layer has panchromatic sensitivity. The dye image is typically slightly blue because of the choice of dye couplers. Examples of black-and-white chromogenic negative films are Ilford XP2 Super and Fujifilm Neopan 400CN, produced in partnership with Ilford.
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  #53  
Old 16th November 2020, 07:29 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Today on Photrio I have asked about Ilford MG filters on exposure with Ilford's new MGV known as DELUXE Then I thought I could look for the answer here on FADU as I had probably asked it here on this thread. However it would seem not.

So for anyone using what we should now call DELUXE as Ilford has not named this paper as MGV, can you say what change in exposure new DELUXE has resulted in when exposing at grade 4 and 5

With MGIV Ilford said that you needed to double the exposure once you went beyond grade 3.5 but with DELUXE it does not give any exact figure that I can see. It simply hints that fine tuning is needed and in the case of DELUXE the change in paper ISO speed does not occur until grade 4
Based on paper speed change it would look as if with MGIV it dropped from 200 to 100 but with DELUXE it is only 240 to 220. I am assuming that 200 to 100 correlates to the doubling of exposure needed with grades 4&5 with MGIV but on that basis it is about a 10% increase only with DELUXE

So has anyone used grades 4&5 with DELUXE and if so is the increase in exposure about 10% compared with grades 00 - 3?

Thanks

Mike
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  #54  
Old 18th November 2020, 07:04 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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No answers so far. Does this mean that no-one here has yet to try a grade 5 MG filter on the new DELUXE paper?

If that is the case then can anyone comment on the logic of what I have written? As I said if I have understood the change of paper speed of the new stuff it would seem that if wanting a grade print then instead of doubling exposure time you simply increase it by about 10%

Any thoughts

Thanks

Mike
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  #55  
Old 18th November 2020, 07:37 PM
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Purely based on the Ilford technical information sheet dated Mar 2020, your logic is correct, Mike.
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  #56  
Old 18th November 2020, 07:51 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Purely based on the Ilford technical information sheet dated Mar 2020, your logic is correct, Mike.
Thanks Marty. It would still be nice if we had a member or members with actual experience. Based on the contrast and blacks of this new stuff on prints the necessity of needing grade 5 would be rare but split grade printing would require it on a regular basis.

Mike
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  #57  
Old 19th November 2020, 08:48 AM
John King John King is offline
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I would be unable to print Gd5 because the filtration on my LPL only goes to 4.5 The above lens filters to use with the Focomat I have are quite old and I think the dye has faded so that as well would not give Gd5 or even Gd4 but the quality that is given by MG5 is I doubt I would ever need anything above 3,5
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  #58  
Old 19th November 2020, 12:49 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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My feeling as well John. Really it's the adjustment for Ilford MG grade 5 filter that is the only important bit for those using split grade. It is only for "artistic effect that I can ever see anyone printing the whole sheet with grade 5

Mike
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  #59  
Old 19th November 2020, 12:54 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
My feeling as well John. Really it's the adjustment for Ilford MG grade 5 filter that is the only important bit for those using split grade. It is only for "artistic effect that I can ever see anyone printing the whole sheet with grade 5

Mike
I printed a negative yesterday that turned out to be a lot thinner than I thought, and could only get the effect that I wanted with grade 5, but that was with MG IV.

I have a new box of MGV, still to try, so hopefully by the weekend, I will try printing the above negative again, and see what the upper grades do and if they are still needed.

Terry S
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  #60  
Old 19th November 2020, 04:08 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
My feeling as well John. Really it's the adjustment for Ilford MG grade 5 filter that is the only important bit for those using split grade. It is only for "artistic effect that I can ever see anyone printing the whole sheet with grade 5

Mike
I don't think that being unable to print the full grade 5 is a real problem. Think of the times past when we didn't have MG paper and usually only used Gd2 or Gd3 and had to perform very very careful dodging or burning in.

I also used other tricks such as if the paper was developing to quickly I would take it out of the developer and dunk it in pain water for a while. Or if one part was reluctant to bring out any detail, a 1/2" brush with neat developer usually helped. Then if all else fails to increase contrast - Farmers reducer!
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