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  #1  
Old 10th February 2011, 02:25 PM
Adrian Holmes Adrian Holmes is offline
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Default Long-term performance of odourless fixers?

Does anyone have a view about the 'archival' permanence of odourless print fixers versus conventional types? I can't help thinking the smell-free advantage must come at a price. Thanks.
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Old 10th February 2011, 02:37 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is online now
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Just a bit of speculation on my part as I don't used the odourless kind but I have never seen any suggestion on any other forum or in any book that the odourless fixer is any less archival. The price paid if there is one may come in three possible forms:

1. Odourless is more expensive per se?
2. Odourless is more quickly exhausted so more is used per same area of print?
3. Odourless takes longer to fix?

If it was less archival then I think this would have been discovered by now and I'd be surprised if people would still be using it.

Mike
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Old 10th February 2011, 02:55 PM
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I use nothing but odourless stop bath and fixer for the last 2 years and have been very satifield with my Fotospeed products. I haven't encounted any of archival issues whatsoever.

Agree with Mike that Odourless is dearer but to me provides a better darkroom experience.

I do fix for a longer time but what is an extra 30secs-1min anyway, I'm a calm person - in no hurry and enjoy my process.

So "YES" it's every bit as good as regular chemistry just nicer to work with.

Larry
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Old 10th February 2011, 03:16 PM
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Trevor Crone Trevor Crone is offline
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I was a big fan of Fotospeed's odourless fix, and indeed it is a fine product, but for the very 3 reasons Mike points out I have recently switched to Agfa Fix-Ag.

I used odourless fix for a number of years and have not noticed anything untoward with regard to archival properties, but ask me again in another 100
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Old 10th February 2011, 03:40 PM
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Odourless usually stands for neutral or alkaline. Alkaline fixers are more robust and last longer than acid fixers. The reason is that thiosulpfate solutions are stable only in neutral or alkaline solutions, but not in acid solutions where decomposition to sulfite (→sulfur dioxide) and sulfur occurs in time.

I have no idea why there are still so many acid fixers on the market. The only reason is historic as alum (hardener) was added which needs boric acid to dissolve.

As for archival permanence - alkaline fixer washes out faster without the need for HCA.
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Old 10th February 2011, 06:00 PM
MarkWalker MarkWalker is offline
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I would agree with Miha, the fact that the alkaline fix is more efficiently washed out would suggest very good long term print stability, and isn't there an old formula for alkaline fixer that has been in use for decades - is it TF-4 or similar ? I find using the fixer at 1:4 dilution gives more than double the longevity than at 1:7, which I think is too weak.
Mark Walker.
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Old 10th February 2011, 06:12 PM
MarkWalker MarkWalker is offline
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I am so sorry, I was mixing up Fotospeeds FX30 (Odourless) with FX40 (Alkali). I use the latter and my comments for it stand. For the FX30 Odourless I would say it has equal longevity properties to regular acid fixer (in that it needs to be archivally washed out): it uses citric acid rather than the smellier, stronger acting acetic acid.
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Old 11th February 2011, 08:28 AM
Adrian Holmes Adrian Holmes is offline
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Thanks for your replies, everybody. Really useful feedback (and indeed reassurance). I'm new to this site, and what a friendly, helpful bunch you all are.
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Old 12th February 2011, 08:42 AM
Stocky Stocky is offline
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Not odourless, but low odour is Kodak Flexicolor Fixer, made for C-41 colour processing but is a standard rapid fixer, pH just on the acid side of neutral. Other makes are also suitable (Fuji and Agfa FX-Universal if it is still made). These are often more reasonably priced than "black and white" fixers.
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Old 12th February 2011, 10:55 PM
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Coincidentally, I mixed up some alkaline fix two days ago, using the TF-2 formula:

Distilled water 750 ml
Sodium Thiosulfate 250 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhy) 15 g
Sodium Metaborate 10 g
Distilled water to make 1000 ml
Use undiluted.

I'm using it for Tri-X developed in PMK Pyro; clearing time is about 1-2 minutes in fresh fixer, I fix for 4-5 mins. Wash time is recommended at 2 minutes, but I've played safe and washed for 5 mins. No Hypo Clear is needed.
Print fixing times are similar, but a longer wash is recommended for fibre-based papers (20-30 minutes?). I have only used it with film.

Completely odourless, but its capacity is limited: estimated at around 20 sheets of 8x10 film per litre I believe, but should be discarded when the clearing time gets to around 5 mins.
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