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  #11  
Old 8th November 2020, 09:02 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Have you looked on the Massive Developer Chart from Digital Truth,?
I have just been there and if you go to Rollei developers you will find developing times for all rollei developers including supergrain, for all films, I can't see RHS dc, but every other rollei developer is listed there under the general section of rollei developers, it would at least enable you to compare times, as far as I can see the only D74 developer around is the Firstcall D74 rhs dc, I can find no listing for D74 anywhere else
Richard
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  #12  
Old 8th November 2020, 02:38 PM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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Yeah I looked. I was trying to establish a relationship between supergrain and d74 as according to Robert Vonk they are the same except one has double the active processing chemical concentration (or that’s how I interpret his post) in d74. But when I asked him about this relationship suggesting that maybe I should half the time for the d74 compared to supergrain, he simply said that I was wrong in my assumption. I asked for clarification but the conversation went dry. Sadly he mentioned that poor health has meant he no longer has time for photographic activities. He seemed a little curt whereas in the past he’s been very generous. I just hope he’s not struggling too much with life. I didn’t suggest that I should maybe dilute it to half the concentrate though. Maybe that was the solution. I don’t want to bother him any more on the matter. The dev arrives tomorrow. I have a couple of 35mm rolls of fomapan 400 so I’ll try halving the dev concentrate and see how that goes. I just hope there isn’t any gems on there if it doesn’t work out!


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  #13  
Old 8th November 2020, 03:33 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I would suggest that you check the suggested developing times for your Fomapan 400 9n whatever developer you intend to use, and develop for that time, with Fomapan 400, of which I have 25 yeardsd experiance with, it is my main film, if you halve the concentrate then you will need to develop for a lot longer or it simply won't work, Fomapan needs to be developed with generous times, for instance, the suggested time for Fomapan in Rodinal 1/50 is 12 minutes, I find yhat 12 minutes gives me very thin negatives, no detail, have found that the 400 needs 18 minutes to get a decent negative, even rating the film at 250, and using my other developer, ID11, 7 to 8 minutes is the suggested time,(From Fomas own fassct sheet) in fact it needs 10 minutes in the stock solution to get good detail,it is no good simply halving the concetrate and developing for the same time's, as far as I can see Supergrain and D74 are 2 different developers, so start with the suggested time for the film at the correct dilution, then if that does not work then try weaking the dilution, If you want to use very weak dilutions then get some Rodinal/RO9 and develop Fomapan at 1/50
, I must agree with Nr Voink that your assumption about the 2 developers are wrong, just stick to the suggested times and dilutions and if you have any great negatives on the film you will not lose them, after all, the makers of the developer should know best so follow their advice as a starting point and you won't go far wrong
Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; 8th November 2020 at 03:37 PM.
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  #14  
Old 8th November 2020, 03:55 PM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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See what you make of Robert’s comments in these discussions.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/673774...7631967791004/

https://www.flickr.com/groups/840610...7630071337014/


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  #15  
Old 8th November 2020, 04:11 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianlambert View Post
See what you make of Robert’s comments in these discussions.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/673774...7631967791004/

https://www.flickr.com/groups/840610...7630071337014/


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I have read these comments during some research on these 2 developers, and as far as I can see it is better to start with the correct times/dilutions for the film/developer they may be similer, with the DC concentrate being higher, but other ingredients in the formula are different, and that makes quite a difference to the way the developer works,experiment if you want to, but I still say it is better to follow the manufacturers advice, after all, they should know their developer better than you, or me, I have never used it, neither have you, and if you don't want to risk the film's then follow the advice given for a new developer, remember, if you halve the dilution, then you must increase the developing time, it is no use following the times for supergrain with a different developer, they may be similar, but there will be differences in the way the developer works, If you want to try the experiment then surely it would be better to waste a film, take anything just reel of the film, develop it, when trying anything new that is what I have always dne, in 50 or more years of photography, thern if it works then go ahead and use it that way, if it fails then all you have lost is a film, not maybe negatives that are irreplaceable, Just a thought, but it's your film and developer
Richard
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  #16  
Old 8th November 2020, 08:03 PM
adrianlambert adrianlambert is offline
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Thanks for your insights Richard. My problem is that I don’t have any times for my film with D74 and I can’t find any recommended times or people that have devved Fomapan 200 with D74 or RHS-DC.

I had gotten a firm impression that Robert was a full bottle on the chem side of things, particularly with am74 and it’s post Amaloco incarnations. So I bought the d74 due to the new packaging, the idea of it being a one shot dev with lower environmental impact, and the lower cost, with the assumption that I could follow Robert’s suggestion re. double diluting d74 and using the same supergrain times. And I was hoping for supergrain like results.

One other thing that Robert did mention was that the D74 was a legacy developer nowadays, and that any current stocks would be getting old, so may not be in tip top shape. Maybe this is why it was cheaper than supergrain even with the new packaging?

I think I’ll talk to Firstcall in the morning and if they can’t clear up some of these issues I’ll send the it back and order more supergrain rather than mess with something new at a time where I’m just wanting to get cracking with shooting and printing in earnest.
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  #17  
Old 8th November 2020, 10:50 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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D74 might be a Legacy developer, but it is still being made and marketed today, at least in the Firstcall soft pac range, also if you lok at the Firstcall softpac range they are cheaper, for in stance RO( soft pac is cheaper than the Rollei RO9 although it is the same developer from the same maker, for me I personally say better the dog you know, I stick to just 2 developers, Rodinal, (RO9/one shot as it is called today) or ID11, I know them both backwards, I have been using Rodinal for well over 60 years, I used my first Rodinal when I was 9, and have always had it in stock ever since,, and la few years ago I started using D76, the same formula as ID11, and I reckon I know that very well, as I said, if you want to experiment with dilutions for D74 then waste a film, develop it, and see how it goes, that way you only waste a film, without ruining any goos negatives, I have done that in the past on the odd times I have tried new developer, gives me a starting point, you can, that way develop part of the film say 1 third, and then you have more to play with to get the developing right, but for serious work better to use just 1 or 2 developers, get to know the film and developer combo backwards, and when you do have a problem you know where to start looking
Richard
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  #18  
Old 8th November 2020, 11:20 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Adrian
I have been to several developing sites, I can only find 1 time for Fomapan 400 in Rollei D74, and it is D74 1/30 25 minutes,It seems that fomapan 400 in d74 is not used, it could well be that Foma 400 does not develop well in d74, but with the Soft pac d74 developer they do give developing times, at least on the soft pac RO9, including for Foma, so look om the pack when it arrives, if the time for the Foma films are not on the back, in very small print, then it is just possible that D74 for Fomapan does not work well, and will nt produce good negatives, not every developer suits every film, for instance HP5+, good film taht it is, just doens't like RO9, and takes a lot of extra developing to get a half decent negative, the there are one or 2 that I know of that suit any film, and are easy to use, the best is ID11, easy to mix and store, and to use, and I know of no fijlm that can't be developed well in it, it is the industry standard, mabe give that a go in the future.I can give you a time for amaloco d74 at 1/19 agitate every 30 seconds is 12 minutes, as far as I can find out this is the same as firstcall d74, so hope this might help,but thiss is all I canfind on any of the film developing chartds that I know of on the web
Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; 8th November 2020 at 11:30 PM.
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  #19  
Old 9th November 2020, 09:23 AM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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filmdev.org has a time for this combo.

Neil.
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  #20  
Old 9th November 2020, 09:52 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B&W Neil View Post
filmdev.org has a time for this combo.

Neil.
That's one of the only 2 I can find anywhere25minutes @1 in 25, it certainly seems to be a rare combination, even the MDC has no listing for this combo, which makes me think it maybe does not work well
Richard,
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