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  #11  
Old 26th November 2020, 08:03 AM
Quendil Quendil is offline
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I think the only Kodak B&W film I have purchased new is a T-Max 3200, I have a couple of rolls of 120 Verichrome Pan and T Max 400 that came with other camera items but only used 1 roll of the Pan so far. I do however use mostly Kodak when I shoot colour film but I don't shoot that much colour. Its definitely the price that puts me off Kodak as I am still really a beginner and can't justify how much more it is than Ilfords products.
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  #12  
Old 26th November 2020, 08:39 AM
John King John King is offline
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Accountants have destroyed many a good and profitable company.

Cut this, change that, there is no market for the other and while you are at it, push up the price as well.
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  #13  
Old 26th November 2020, 12:40 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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And to muddy the waters, there are sellers that are trying to sell 4, yes FOUR, rolls of 120 Tri-X, that is dated BB 1980(!) for way above the new price quoted near the beginning of this thread for FIVE rolls!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/37335120093...b79b67345dcae9

Some 'hipster' will probably buy them though...

Terry S
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  #14  
Old 26th November 2020, 01:08 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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In the main when the increased demand is cited it always seems to be colour film that is mentioned in the same breath. It might be my impression that is wrong and indeed Kodak's b&w's demand cannot be met either but it just seems to get much less of a mention.

I think there is little doubt that the disastrous drop in film demand has ceased but what isn't clear is what level the sales are at nor what the revival trend is. Is it now substantial enough that all the current film makers are assure of a comfortable if not rosy future?

The person on whom a lot of members on Photrio depend for film and analogue news in general is a person called Henning Serger and he has a host of stories from all the major film manufacturers that he says backs up his believe in film's healthy revival.

However when pressed on matters he tends to go on the defensive and getting hard facts from him is something I found difficult

Recently to put to bed the interminable debate on how big film's revival is I asked him if he had obtained figures of sales and trends on those sale over, say the last 5 years or however long the upward trend has been seen and, if so, if he could share that data with the members on Photrio.

Unfortunately he has not be about or certainly not been responding for a few weeks

What I find strange is that Kodak still allegedly has very big facilities for film making and one of the problems that gets cited is that Kodak costs are tied up with it being still geared up for its former economies of scale. However if that is the case then this is difficult to reconcile this with it not being able to keep up with current demand. After all when the whole world used film and of that world most used Kodak it was able to keep up but now it cannot

It may well be that Kodak did get rid of a lot of its facilities or even that the facilities are still there but taking them back "out of mothballs" is quite a lengthy procedure but we don't know

However if it has successfully scaled down as Ilford managed post its 2004/5 demise when management bought the company out and it became Harman then surely the former economies of scale argument used to explain its high costs compared to the likes of Ilford would then no longer apply?

The problem with all of the above set of "facts" is that I do not know where the real facts lie and frankly nor does anyone else outside of the higher ranks of film companies management.

So to a large extent we are "punching the air" in such discussions and there will always be those who believe in the future strength of film's revival and in Kodak not having any real way of keeping price increases to less steep levels and those, who lacking the facts, tend to take a more sceptical view.

No secret that I fall into the latter category

Mike
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  #15  
Old 26th November 2020, 01:10 PM
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GoodOldNorm GoodOldNorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
And to muddy the waters, there are sellers that are trying to sell 4, yes FOUR, rolls of 120 Tri-X, that is dated BB 1980(!) for way above the new price quoted near the beginning of this thread for FIVE rolls!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/37335120093...b79b67345dcae9

Some 'hipster' will probably buy them though...

Terry S
I am always baffled why people pay more on Ebay for out-dated film than new film from our sponsers. The prices for out-dated and fresh film imho are excessive on Ebay.
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  #16  
Old 26th November 2020, 01:25 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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I am always baffled why people pay more on Ebay for out-dated film than new film from our sponsers. The prices for out-dated and fresh film imho are excessive on Ebay.
I totally agree Norm.

And as a personal experience, I cleared out my film stocks quite recently, both b/w and colour, in both 35mm and 120 and of various speeds. They were all out of date by varying amounts, some by years. I had the clear out as I had a couple of films that didn't develop how I thought they should and had seen how some people thought of this as a bonus.

All of the above outdated stock was sold on ebay UK in two lots, being 35mm and 120 formats. Full details and pictures were given, so anyone bidding would know exactly what they were getting.

The final bids were both from the same buyer, in Europe somewhere, so there was more costly postage as well. The winning bids were close to twice the cost of new film. With the money I bought a smaller amount of some new fresh stock, which I now keep refrigerated.

I did ask the seller why he wanted the film at such a premium, and the answer was basically that he liked the not knowing how the film would turn out...?! Let's just hope that the majority of the films were okay and he didn't use them on anything important, although I doubt if that would have bothered him. I got the feeling that the more that the film reacted badly, the more he would like the results.

Terry S
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  #17  
Old 26th November 2020, 04:44 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Nothing inherently wrong with "hipsters" who buy any "new" film that is announced even if the films are old cine film stocks nor who buy at ridiculous prices genuine "old" film as in "outdated" just to see what they will get with such "new" or old films.

However if this is their main or only film diet then I fear that this consumption pattern is so "niche" as to be unsustainable in the long term and becomes dangerously close to being a fad. The problem with fads being that by definition they are short term passing delights.

We have lost a lot of trad film users who may never use another film ever again. Those of us for whom film is still the mainstay will begin to slow down and eventually cease to exist so the future relies on enough of the newcomers to buy enough film to at least sustain a level of demand that keeps film companies going

I am not at all sure as yet whether we have enough evidence that this kind of long term use of film will last in sufficient quantity to keep film going

Mike
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  #18  
Old 27th November 2020, 11:10 AM
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Are you particularly worried, Mike, about the supply of film beyond the point where you’ve ceased to exist? 🤔


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  #19  
Old 27th November 2020, 02:54 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Are you particularly worried, Mike, about the supply of film beyond the point where you’ve ceased to exist? 🤔


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Yes I intend to go on until I can say "I'm going to be married on Thursday and I'm 94 the day"

My last sentence will hopefully mean something to a fellow Scot

The real answer is that I may not outlive film so why should I be concerned? On the other hand things can change for the worse more quickly that we imagine

Mike
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  #20  
Old 27th November 2020, 03:23 PM
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I’ll be your best man! It’s not as if you’ll have much of a choice. 👍🏻


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