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Old 26th December 2016, 10:41 AM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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Default Paper fixing

Is there any reason why you should use fix neat when fixing your prints?
The reason I ask is I came across a gentleman on U-tube saying he did this to make sure his prints were fixed properly.
From my understanding when using diluted rapid fix FB print are fully done in a minute.
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Old 26th December 2016, 10:50 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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You run a very high risk of bleaching the image with undiluted rapid fixer, and this can happen very quickly. Fixers are designed to be used at an optimal strength although with papers, you can use more dilute but for longer. Over fixing in fresh fixer will cut the highlight tones particularly with warm tone papers..

It's possible he's talking about using something like Hypam as 1+9 for the initial fixing and the 1+4 for the second fixing bath, I'd call 1+4 full "working" strength and 1+9 dilute.

Ian

Last edited by Lostlabours; 26th December 2016 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 26th December 2016, 11:34 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I would have thought that undiluted fixer with prints would bleach the image,I have seen thic happen even with dilute fixer if overfixed, I use 2 bath fixing for FB prints, dilute at 1/9, or 3 minutes per bath, but I would not fix for longer,
Richard
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:06 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Just as a matter of interest, Mitch which Utube video was this?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 26th December 2016, 03:02 PM
John King John King is offline
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There arre some people who think they are being clever and think they know better than the chemical/paper manufacturers and when it goes belly up they blame the, manufacturers/paper/chemicals in fact anything else but themselves.

I have given up gently advising folk when they are doing the wrong thing and let them stew. This does not only apply to photography! Its their loss not mine
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Old 26th December 2016, 09:35 PM
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Undiluted "neat" rapid fixer (Ammonium thiosulphate based) fixes very slowly compared to a 1+4 or even a 1+9 dilution. Why? The reason is that fixer concentrate has very little water in it. The fixation products, silver tetrathionates etc, can't find water to dissolve in and tend to hang around in the film or paper. Ever noticed how heavy a bottle of rapid fixer concentrate is compared to its size. It's nearly all chemicals with just enough water to make it conveniently pourable.
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Old 27th December 2016, 07:01 AM
John King John King is offline
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Another side effect of using undiluted fixer will be, (especially on fibre based papers) the extended washing times needed to clear the paper of chemicals. Unless done properly the residual chemicals will affect the image, possibly in as little 6 months.

My panels to gain my ARPS are close to 30 years old now and the mounts are showing the age but not the prints because the were washed properly
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Old 27th December 2016, 10:37 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maris View Post
Undiluted "neat" rapid fixer (Ammonium thiosulphate based) fixes very slowly compared to a 1+4 or even a 1+9 dilution. Why? The reason is that fixer concentrate has very little water in it. The fixation products, silver tetrathionates etc, can't find water to dissolve in and tend to hang around in the film or paper. Ever noticed how heavy a bottle of rapid fixer concentrate is compared to its size. It's nearly all chemicals with just enough water to make it conveniently pourable.
However if you place a print that's just been fixed in dilute fixer into concentrated fixer there's some diffusion into the emulsion and image bleaching is very rapid.

Ian
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Old 27th December 2016, 12:52 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Fixation about fixing

I cannot understand why there needs to be so much deviation from tried and tested methods which have been in place for over 10 decades. There is no 'Holy Grail' that will make extra fixing better, be it extended time or higher concentrations, will allow the print to last longer.

The main key is to wash thoroughly after the main chemical processing is done. Too many prints are not washed enough which allows polution and the conditions under which the print is kept to deteriorate sooner than is should be. 'Wash Aid' will help but it is no real replacement for thorough washing.

Apart from my ARPS prints, I have a few dating back to around 1963/4 and they are going 'off' but after 50 plus years of indifferent storage, that isn't bad.
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Old 27th December 2016, 09:59 PM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photomi7ch View Post
Is there any reason why you should use fix neat when fixing your prints?
The reason I ask is I came across a gentleman on U-tube saying he did this to make sure his prints were fixed properly.
From my understanding when using diluted rapid fix FB print are fully done in a minute.
Fortunately there is no law in the UK against being an idiot and are entitled to free speech

Stick to what the manufacturers say - they know what they are talking about and have the science and the data to prove it.

Martin
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