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  #1  
Old 23rd June 2019, 09:17 PM
maxwellmakosk maxwellmakosk is offline
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Default Losing frame 1 Jobo CPA2

Hi all! I just started processing E6 in a CPA2 and keep losing frame 1 on 35mm no matter what I try. I am using the older jobo reels (without the ball bearings) and 1500 series tanks.

At first I thought it was chemistry so I added more and more and more but that didn't change anything.

Then I tried rotating at the lowest speed (not recommended for e6 apparently) but that actually gave me frame 0 however frame 00 is still cut in half.

Of course I could just forget about frame 00 but I am curious as to why this is happening and why the chemistry isn't reaching that part of the negative. This may be a somewhat obscure question but if anyone could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

Max
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  #2  
Old 23rd June 2019, 10:29 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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A bit if a puzzle this one, Max, to state the obvious. I can see no reason why the reels would be able to distinguish between a B&W film a C41 or E6 film.

Is this also occurring with B&W and C41 in the same reel and does it always happen even with different reels or is it the same reel each time and if so is this same reel OK with B&W or C41?

Mike
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Old 24th June 2019, 05:09 PM
big paul big paul is offline
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what camera are you using ????
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Old 24th June 2019, 05:51 PM
maxwellmakosk maxwellmakosk is offline
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thanks for your replies! I only process E6 in this machine but it would most definitely happen regardless of the film type processed. I use an M2 but it happens with even blank 35mm film (which I tested) for some reason the bit of film loaded first onto the reel (touching the center stock) isnt receiving chemistry. I've studied the design of the jobo tank, cog lid etc. and so no reason for this lack of chemistry reaching the film, definitely stumped. Writing this it just occurred to me the table may not be completely balanced but its happened to every film even when loaded with 4 to 8 reels at a time so maybe its not that. Anyway, if anyone has any ideas go for it otherwise ill keep this thread updated just in case someone else has this problem in the future.
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Old 24th June 2019, 06:59 PM
Michael Michael is offline
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Have you run reels through in both directions?
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  #6  
Old 24th June 2019, 07:03 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Missing link!

I wonder, are you loading the film but not winding on sufficiently so your 1st frame is not actually exposed. Film leaders used to more generous than they are today and this can be seen with the amount of 'leader' that I have to cut off when I use either of my Nikon film bodies. I can get 36 exp from a full length roll and no more, even if the camera allowed it.

The time you got 1/2 of the 1st exposure you mentioned this first full frame was 0, but 00 was not visible. I doubt if it has anything to do with the amount of chemistry you use. When I use my Nikon F6/F100 the 1st frame when loaded correctly is always '1' and the last frame 36.

When I use my Minolta XM/XE1 bodies I can get away with a much shorter leader and can usually get 38 exp with no problem, but the end of the start leader is very close to the 1st exposure.

Last edited by John King; 24th June 2019 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 24th June 2019, 08:51 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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So just to be clear, Max, you are getting frames 1-36 from a 36 frame cassette OK, it is just that you lose all of -2( frame 00) and half of frame -1 (frame 0). This initially sounds a camera problem in terms of wind-on except that it seems that if you lower the speed on the CPA2 you then get half of frame 0.

If I have understood what you are experiencing I cannot see a link between the speed of the rotation and half a frame more.
I'd have been inclined to support John King's idea of it being a camera issue but for the strange phenomenon of that extra half frame when you lower the CPA2's rotation speed.

I don't suppose you have another manual wind-on camera that you could try , do you? That way if this "cures" the problem it would suggest that the Leica wind-on is the issue.

My only 2 35mm cameras are auto wind-on so my experience has been that I only every get frames 1-36 anyway.

Off the subject now but in terms of frames 36 divides nicely into 6x6 strips for the negative file page so frame 37 and 38 or 00 and 0 at the start would be more trouble than it's worth

Mike
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Old 25th June 2019, 11:42 AM
Michael Michael is offline
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Max - Your original post isn't explicit about one matter. Is the first portion of each processed film different in appearance from the rest i.e is it obvious that the chemistry has missed it? My earlier post in this thread assumed that to be the case and suggests a test for it.

If that's not the case, then I wonder whether, since the M2 is a bottom loader (like my IIIf), your trimming of the leader might not be taking you up to frames 00 and 0 anyway. If you were to expose a roll of B&W and process it by inversion, you could then see whether that is so. I have looked back at my recent IIIf films and compared them with film exposed in other cameras; and my trimming does make a difference.
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Old 30th June 2019, 12:20 AM
maxwellmakosk maxwellmakosk is offline
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This thread has been incredible helping me try to solve a problem I actually just realized (through replying to michaels message which I somehow missed earlier) is non existent. I am so used to processing black and white negative film that I expected the sight of a healthy black leader after processing. Seeing the leader translucent on the rolls of e6 sent off alarms in my brain telling me something wasn't right but that's just transparency. This has been a good laugh, every time I thought I was getting closer to frame 00 (via a slower speed) I was really just starting to expose closer and closer to the leader. Cheers to everyone who replied I can't believe I was loosing sleep over this... :P
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