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  #11  
Old 3rd December 2019, 03:55 PM
verene verene is offline
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It was a customer who told me he was doing that but was very reluctant to tell me what dilution or product he used and I could not work out from what he buys from us what he was doing it with (and of course he might be getting stuff elsewhere).
He showed me his work and it is impressive. So when trying to find out what he could be possibly using and how, I asked the tech people at Harman/Ilford and other people and all were non-plussed. Martin was the only one coming up with suggestions (after wondering why on earth someone would do that) and he did mention the Rodinal as well. It just nags me to have seen something supposedly possible but not knowing how.
Anyway I guess I will have to give it a bash in the dark and potentially waste some film.
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  #12  
Old 3rd December 2019, 04:28 PM
big paul big paul is offline
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how would you sort out temperature change over night
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  #13  
Old 3rd December 2019, 04:37 PM
verene verene is offline
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Maybe he slept with it. But true, in this weather I might as well keep the tank in the fridge.
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  #14  
Old 3rd December 2019, 04:41 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Let us know how you get on and with what stuff you use, virene.

I may be more cynical than most but I find that "out there" there are more fantasists or devious people than we deserve to have to come in contact with.

I am surprised that when you asked him about his "elixir" he didn't look around suspiciously for any eavesdroppers and then say in a conspiratorial whisper: " I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you"

In my old age I freely admit that such people as these do get up my nose a little

Mike
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  #15  
Old 3rd December 2019, 04:56 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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Steve Sherman uses Extreme Minimal Agitation (EMA) technique.
https://www.powerofprocesstips.com
I'm not sure it's 8 hours in the soup, but it's an interesting way of working.
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  #16  
Old 3rd December 2019, 07:20 PM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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There is a fair bit on the net on this if you have the time to look.

From what I've read so far it appears to back up what I already thought and that's the development is probably over by around the one hour mark. After that the film just sits there doing not much at all for as long as you like.

The one hour stand development method is well documented on the net so this could be a point to experiment from. But I have tried this myself and found no advantage in neg or print quality.

With stand developments there is a risk of getting streaking on your negs and of course agitation ensures this doesen't happen. Hence why the semi-stand dev methods are popular.

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  #17  
Old 3rd December 2019, 07:46 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimW View Post
Steve Sherman uses Extreme Minimal Agitation (EMA) technique.
https://www.powerofprocesstips.com
I'm not sure it's 8 hours in the soup, but it's an interesting way of working.
From what he gives away free so to speak in the videos I was able to see, there are certain fixed elements which combine to give prints that will bring out the maximum mid-tone contrast which is key to his prints.

This starts with using Pyrocat developer, the first fixed element as it were and a minimal agitation of 30 sec in 45 mins, the second fixed element. The Pyrocat is highly diluted, the 3rd fixed element, but he didn't give the dilution on the video I saw. This results in a negative of low maximum density but great mid-tone contrast which is then printed using the split grade method, 4th fixed element. However he spoke of, I think, 5 points/elements so maybe I have missed one.

Bottom line being that minimal agitation is 30 secs in 45 mins which is a long way from verene's acquaintance's method of overnight so assuming said acquaintance wasn't making it up as he went along then what he does may be unrelated to Steve Sherman's minimal agitation

The one thing that rang a bell was Pyrocat which Ian Grant uses as well and his experience is very extensive but in Ian's case I can't recall him mentioning minimal agitation

Mike
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  #18  
Old 4th December 2019, 01:35 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Hmmm, many points to think over given so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verene View Post
By overnight I meant 8 hours. As to why is because I was shown (gorgeous) examples of results by someone who claimed to have done it...
As already said, 8 hours is a long time, with stand developing being in the one hour-ish length of time usually. And I too do wonder, if with a very diluted developer, that much, if anything, actually happens after the one hour mark?

And the prints that you have seen, that you describe as 'gorgeous', may be just in your eyes(?) or maybe he's just a very good printer and the long development makes little difference and he's able to print well with a 'normal' negative as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
The famous photographer Bert Hardy retells a story of how in desperation to get some kind of a negative he used a mixture that he had learned about from some Fleet Street darkroom worker and after a fashion it worked well enough a newspaper picture but it was a last resort method

Mike
And as Mike says, '...after a fashion it worked well enough [for] a newspaper picture but it was a last resort method'. This too makes me wonder that if it was good enough years ago, it would have passed into normal practice for some and it wouldn't be such a mystery as it seems at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verene View Post
It was a customer who told me he was doing that but was very reluctant to tell me what dilution or product he used... I asked the tech people at Harman/Ilford and other people and all were non-plussed. Anyway I guess I will have to give it a bash in the dark and potentially waste some film.
It's also strange to me that he seems so secretive about it...? And if anyone would know, I would of thought that someone at a large manufacturer like Ilford might know.

But yes, as you say, if it has peaked your interest enough, you are indeed going to have to 'give it a bash' and 'waste some film' as you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verene View Post
Maybe he slept with it. But true, in this weather I might as well keep the tank in the fridge.
This comment, for whatever reason, sounded vaguely familiar to me, for I too remember in the long distant past I'm sure, read about someone doing exactly that - putting the tank in a fridge overnight. I've done some searching but can't find anything similar...

Well, if nothing else, you have made me curious but not enough to spend a good bit of time and materials on it, especially having not seen any of this work that you highly praise. If I had, then maybe, just maybe, I might have taken it a little further.

But good luck to you and I'm sure that there's a few of us now who would be interested to hear your findings, at a later date.

As a final thought, if you could find out the customer's name, it might take you a small step to finding out a bit more with a search on the web.

Terry S
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  #19  
Old 4th December 2019, 02:40 PM
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Pyrocat would exhaust long before 8 hours.
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  #20  
Old 4th December 2019, 03:53 PM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Barry, I agree with that 100%.

If fact I believe most known film developers would exhaust in that time - especially if used at high dilutions to obtain the 8 hour development (?) time.

Maybe someone has come up with a super brew that is yet to hit the market, hence the secretcy

Neil.
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