Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Equipment > Darkroom

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 4th July 2012, 11:34 AM
Gavin's Avatar
Gavin Gavin is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, Hampshire.
Posts: 165
Default Query on darkroom safety / electrics / flamable liquids.

I'm currently clearing a space at the back of the garage for the darkroom where the main consumer unit is positioned. Although I'm experienced with electrics I don't know about darkroom chemicals and the amount of electrics involved with a consumer unit being sited in the same room.

The consumer unit will be boxed in to make it less attractive to dust but all the same I feel the question needs to be asked.
  #2  
Old 4th July 2012, 11:41 AM
Steve Smith's Avatar
Steve Smith Steve Smith is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ryde, Isle of Wight.
Posts: 1,102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
I feel the question needs to be asked.
Which question?

Most darkrooms have electricity. As long as you don't have extension leads in your trays you should be ok!

Does your consumer unit have RCD protection?


Steve.

Last edited by Steve Smith; 4th July 2012 at 11:44 AM.
  #3  
Old 4th July 2012, 11:52 AM
Trevor Crone's Avatar
Trevor Crone Trevor Crone is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,609
Default

Gavin, in my 30 odd years in the darkroom both at home and in commercial and education sector, very few flammable chemicals are used for general use that would be a hazard with electrical switching. I've mostly used ethanol and petrol (lighter fluid) as cleaning agents. Ethanol is sometimes used in wetting agents and being highly diluted would not be an issue.

Like all chemical use common sense is called for. If using something like ethanol, use only small quantities at a time away from naked flames, keep containers stoppered and at floor level preferably in a steel/metal cabinet.

Toxicity is more of an issue, wise to wear gloves and a face mask if there is a real risk of airborne dust. In education and the commercial sector we were required to wear eye protection when mixing hazardous chemicals. Always read up on the hazards involved and take the necessary precautions to protect yourself and others.
__________________
"To the attentive eye, each moment of the year has its own beauty, and in the same field, it beholds, every hour, a picture which was never seen before, and which will never be seen again" Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Timespresent
Arenaphotographers
  #4  
Old 4th July 2012, 11:53 AM
paulc paulc is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nestled in the foothills of Norfolk.
Posts: 931
Default

Will the fumes from photographic processes corrode/damage the consumer unit ? Unless you subject the installation to directed high concentrations of fumes, it is unlikely any damage would occur.

Should I be concerned about the consumer unit being an ignition source ? Sometimes, we use alcohols in the darkroom either as a cleaning fluid or as a solvent in an alternative process - One would hope that the room is well ventilated so that the fumes would not build to explosive levels.

As long as the consumer unit (and any other electrical item) is kept well away from chemical spills or splashes, I wouldn't have thought there would be any danger. If your meter is in the same room, anyone coming to take a reading might grimace, but there is little they could do about it.
  #5  
Old 4th July 2012, 05:38 PM
cesare cesare is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brighton
Posts: 350
Default

In a garage i'd be more concerned about damp causing rust to equipment, and also it is common for power sockets to be not on the RCD in garages, so check that out (or get a plugin RCD unit).
  #6  
Old 4th July 2012, 10:11 PM
Gavin's Avatar
Gavin Gavin is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, Hampshire.
Posts: 165
Default

Steve, as below.

Thank you Trevor. I could have explained my initial post better but it was indeed the flammable nature of any chemicals that concerned me and your experience has helped remove that concern for me. A steel cabinet for chemicals shouldn't be a problem either so thank you for that.

Paul thank you for putting my concerns across. The room will be vented and filtered, in fact it will have air/con by the time I've finished and the electrics are protected by both an RCD & MCB's. I also installed a garage ring main in the garage when first moving in as I used to produce some work from there. This will be removed and re-routed around the darkroom as I don't produce work from the garage any longer. I'll also install a dedicated safe light feed to an MCB so should any ground level house lights trip I shouldn't be disturbed half way through a safe light situation. He says!

Cesare damp isn't an issue as the main central heating feed runes along that wall so I'll be installing a radiator for winter heat and during the summer have two or three ground level electric tube heaters. There will also be a 2 inch floating floor to get my feet away from the concrete floor in the winter months.

Air con and floating floors may seem a little over the top but if the environment is as comfortable as possible I can only blame myself for failures and address the learning curve rather than blame cold feet - being too hot or worst of all blaming the equipment.

I do appreciate the positive responses. Standing in the garage today and having pulled most the crap out that resided there the consumer unit and flammable products was my only concern. Onwards and upwards, timber and plasterboard order going in tomorrow.
  #7  
Old 5th July 2012, 03:08 AM
AlanJones AlanJones is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 234
Default

Gavin, Hang on one moment!

Are you on a two wire overhead supply at your home? If you are you are, you are not supposed to export an earth from the main building to another, so you will need to have another earthing spike going down into the ground. Can't quite say how far as I don't know local conditions, could be just half a metre or perhaps two or three metres depending on how dry the soil is. Outside, in the garden the earthing spike(s) would benefit from a weekly bucket of water in hot or dry weather.

Then there are other supposed regulations as to buried cables with an object placed over them and marking the route. This is to protect someone coming along later with a spade who does not know they are there against electrocution. It is cheaper to go from building to building with cables in conduit supported by catenary wires but there are more regs here regarding height and support. Keep the route of your cables away from or avoid crossing telephone cables: Harmonic affect.

I hope you have sat down one night and added up the wattage of all the appliances you intend using in your darkroom when out there and added a extra to take into account future needs and a heater for winter. When you have this figure, divide 230 in to it and this will give you the Amps you will be drawing through your new supply cable. Go to the next size of conductor above this figure. Now, note I used the word 'supposed' when referring to regulations. A grey area to most. I mean the old IEE Regulations which is now a British Standard, BS7671. These regs were only enforceable within the industry and not in a court of law. The Blair government in the naughties was wanting to make it illegal for unqualified people to work with electrical installations and appliances, just like it is for gas, but never quite actually did it though they did do a lot of tightening up. I have been retired for a year now and not up to date, but you could find if you had a fire and your wiring was to blame the insurance on your home would be invalid and not pay out. If you had an approved contractor (ECA or NICEIC) undertake the work and there was a problem with fire you would have the benefit of their trade indemnity insurance.

At the end of the day, its your money and peace of mind, but you have not been given full or good advice so far. Ask your supplier of mcb's and earth leakage devices if you want to know more about nuisance tripping the subject title is 'discrimination'. Which one will trip out.
  #8  
Old 5th July 2012, 11:18 PM
Gavin's Avatar
Gavin Gavin is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, Hampshire.
Posts: 165
Default

Thank you Allan I appreciate your advice and concern.
To expand on the situation, the garage is an internal one which is two cars long and the darkroom will cover apx the rear 3 x 3M which also houses the main incoming electric supply coming up through the garage floor having travelled underneath the front garden to the lane out front.
There are two earthing rods, one inside the garage directly below the incoming supply and one outside near the gas meter.
If I'm honest the consumer unit and supply I don't have worries over but I have more faith in my own wiring that what was installed originally as a self build in 1972. You'd think cable clips weren't invented until 1973 and earth bonding was considered a marriage of two wires by the then local 'Reverend Pliers'. I could also go on about plumbing but as a plumber myself it would make a long read. Anyway, I digress...

If this information can glean anything from your experience Allan I'm all ears. Installing MCB's and feeding from them I'm beyond confident with but if there's some regs that would help keep what I have done above board then I'd be happy to implement them. Then when the old electrics burn the house down at least I can point a finger at the darkroom and say "Alan said....."
  #9  
Old 6th July 2012, 05:20 AM
Steve Smith's Avatar
Steve Smith Steve Smith is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ryde, Isle of Wight.
Posts: 1,102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
but if there's some regs that would help keep what I have done above board"
Unless you can self certificate the work or have it certified, you shouldn't be doing it yourself anymore. However.....


Steve.
  #10  
Old 6th July 2012, 06:24 AM
AlanJones AlanJones is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 234
Default D.I.Y. Electrics

Oh dear! Looks like you have a problem with your home wiring and its going to be a long one for me to write.

I could bet money on you not having a 10 yearly 'Periodic Inspection Cert' on your wiring at home! The full title is 'Supplementary Equipotential Bonding' and relates to earth wire connection to all service pipes in your home which you already seem to know about, but sometimes metal windows in bathrooms too. In the 1970's 2.5mm cable was considered suitable enough, but went gone up to 4mm, then 6mm but now might be 10mm, as far as I know, having been retired for a year and possibly two more years when I was clerking due ill health. I would need a refresher course if I went back to work again. This bonding needs doing, connecting all service pipes upstairs and down to the main earthing terminal. From here you should have connection to your earthing spikes and consumer unit as well. You mention cable clips, though not strictly a safety issue, there is a laid down maximum distance apart they should be. Any 90 degree bends in cable of less than 10cm are not allowed as they think it creates hot spots due to contortion of the conductors. I would now tend to have a look in your attic to see if any cables are buried by insulation material, if so, un-bury them so heat can dissipate.

Back to earthing, it does look like you are on an overhead supply even though your supply cable comes in from under your garden. Might well be out in the lane or across fields nearby. The earthing spikes are the give a way. If not, it really is time for a good 'Oh dear'. Meaning that it all needs ripping out and starting again.

I dare say you thought about getting someone in the trade to do your little job for say £20 or £30 as a beer money job and close to the holiday season being only a couple of hours work to them and perhaps couldn't. The answer to this one is new regulation has frightened us all off and we don't do it anymore. Me, I will only change a light switch or socket outlet and nothing else. Not even a new power point.

You should be thinking about bringing the home up to standard before starting on the darkroom. Also about your insurance paying out in the even of a fire if you don't have the paperwork proving the electrics are up to scratch.
Closed Thread
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contrast filtration query mark d Monochrome printing techniques 6 13th March 2011 07:43 PM
Safety stuff AmericanMrs Manufactured brews 13 7th October 2010 04:42 PM
Mamiya TLR Lens Query Richard Lee Cameras - medium format 4 21st March 2010 09:41 AM
Picture Album Query Monoman Help! 3 15th September 2008 07:39 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.